Bond - finished off for good?

[tooextracool]

And yet that rise has surely been purely theoretical in Test-cricket - really, if you look at it, his only real achievement in Tests was to bowl well in West Indies.
Taking cheap wickets against Bangladesh and in that India series really isn't much to shout about. Especially considering he bowled so poorly in Australia and Sri Lanka.

of course the 3/97 on the flattest of wickets in SL in the first test where no other fast bowler did better doesnt count at all....

 

[Dick Rockett]

And yet that rise has surely been purely theoretical in Test-cricket - really, if you look at it, his only real achievement in Tests was to bowl well in West Indies.
Taking cheap wickets against Bangladesh and in that India series really isn't much to shout about. Especially considering he bowled so poorly in Australia and Sri Lanka.
In ODIs of course it's a different story, his short career was exceptional, but really someone who hasn't even looked like conquering the Test game can't be looked upon as highly as he was.

Oh, for crying out loud. I hope he does come back, just to prove how wrong you are.

 

[Richard]

Oh, it won't show me wrong at all if he does come back and take lots of Test-wickets cheaply.
Because I've never said I don't believe him capable of doing so.
All I've said is that the praise he's been given has assumed he's done far more in Test-cricket than he has.
If he does recover and play Test-cricket I'll not be too surprised if he makes a success - the way he's bowled in ODIs hasn't suggested ODI-specialist status at all.
All I've ever said is that he's not done anywhere near as well as most assume he has.

 

[Richard]

of course the 3/97 on the flattest of wickets in SL in the first test where no other fast bowler did better doesnt count at all....

No, it counts, it's just still not that impressive an achievement - neither is his series average of 38.

 

[anzac]

Oh, it won't show me wrong at all if he does come back and take lots of Test-wickets cheaply.
Because I've never said I don't believe him capable of doing so.
All I've said is that the praise he's been given has assumed he's done far more in Test-cricket than he has.
If he does recover and play Test-cricket I'll not be too surprised if he makes a success - the way he's bowled in ODIs hasn't suggested ODI-specialist status at all.
All I've ever said is that he's not done anywhere near as well as most assume he has.

here we go again...............IMO your comments re Bond's Test record may be factually acurate, but also proves the arguement that stats alone are misleading...........

so far as his figures v AUS are concerned it appears to have been a poor series for him, but his bowling in the Perth Test was anything but poor - as I've said b4 IMO he sounded the death knell on M Waugh's career & the only thing he didn't do was take a hatful of wickets...........people have often commented that good bowling at one end can help create wicket opportunities at the other - IMO that's what Bond did in Perth & he was not helped by some dubious umpiring decisions..........

so far as the series v IND was concerned he was good enough to dismiss some quality batsmen with quality deliveries & took advantage of the conditions

I don't hear the same comments being made when spin bowlers take bags of wickets on doctored pitches................

 

[anzac]

so far as this latest injury goes.............firstly I'm curious as to how he got it - is it the injury that sent him home from the ENG tour - or has he picked it up since his return??????

secondly I hate to say it but I doubt that he'll every be the same again.........

he is approaching 30 b4 he is likely to comeback - so his body will be unable to shake off injury as quickly as b4;
he has not played for a loong time & picked this injury up while recovering from an earlier injury - not even in the field of battle so to speak;
he has a history of injury which will only get tougher to avoid & recover from as he gets past 30;
he had supposedly changed hs action so as to avoid this type of injury - seems like that one worked really well....

so what does he do now - another change of action or what????

I agree that he is most likely to return as an ODI 'specialist' as this would involve less physical strain..........but bottom line I doubt we'll see a 150 kph bowler if he does make it back - more likely something akin to the shortened run up & drop of pace that Dizzy had to make to continue his career after his last back injury........

 

[Dick Rockett]

Oh, it won't show me wrong at all if he does come back and take lots of Test-wickets cheaply.
Because I've never said I don't believe him capable of doing so.
All I've said is that the praise he's been given has assumed he's done far more in Test-cricket than he has.
If he does recover and play Test-cricket I'll not be too surprised if he makes a success - the way he's bowled in ODIs hasn't suggested ODI-specialist status at all.
All I've ever said is that he's not done anywhere near as well as most assume he has.

I know you want to cover your bases here, but I'm afraid that your comments, now and in the past, do show that you have major doubts about his ability with the red ball.

I don't think anyone here has gotten carried away about his ability. Anyone who's seen him in full flight knows how good he is, and that includes tests. If people are enthusiastic about his ODI performances, it's because that's what most people have seen him do.

As I have explained before, having been at the Basin Reserve test on the infamous Indian tour, Bond was swinging his victims out, and that has nothing to do with the pitch. No-one here is claiming he's a test match legend, but it's fairly apparent he's special, and I don't blame anyone for getting excited about it. Including me.

 

[Richard]

Maybe it might have been misinterpreted as such, but as I've never seen him bowl with a red-ball I've only ever tried to suggest possibilities.
Thus far his career has suggested to me that he's nowhere near as good with the red-ball as the white, but four series isn't something you can make an inequivocal judgement on.

 

[Richard]

here we go again...............IMO your comments re Bond's Test record may be factually acurate, but also proves the arguement that stats alone are misleading...........

so far as his figures v AUS are concerned it appears to have been a poor series for him, but his bowling in the Perth Test was anything but poor - as I've said b4 IMO he sounded the death knell on M Waugh's career & the only thing he didn't do was take a hatful of wickets...........people have often commented that good bowling at one end can help create wicket opportunities at the other - IMO that's what Bond did in Perth & he was not helped by some dubious umpiring decisions..........

so far as the series v IND was concerned he was good enough to dismiss some quality batsmen with quality deliveries & took advantage of the conditions

I don't hear the same comments being made when spin bowlers take bags of wickets on doctored pitches................

That's because doctored pitches are very rare - spin-friendly pitches don't happen as often as I'd like, either.
Myself, I always like to point-out the conditions in which wickets were taken - I believe them very important contexts.

 

[Macka]

Just heard Bond is having surgery on his back on the 19th August, good luck to him.

 

[Craig]

I'm assuming that that's a dig at Harmison, and think that perhaps you should look at who he dismissed in the series after Bangladesh (and the volume of wickets he got)

Actually it was not.

He was commenting on Shane Bond.

 

[marc71178]

Are you sure about that?

I was thinking that Bond isn't actually ranked that highly would mean he's talking about a fast bowler that is, and started to move when he took the 9-not a lot in Bangladesh.

 

[tooextracool]

No, it counts, it's just still not that impressive an achievement - neither is his series average of 38.

look at it in context....no other fast bowler took more than 1 wicket in the entire match(that includes the all-mighty chaminda vaas). it was a placid wicket,with a little bit of turn for the spinners, 3 wickets on that wicket certainly doesnt show me that he couldnt bowl outside of seaming conditions.

 

[Dick Rockett]

Maybe it might have been misinterpreted as such, but as I've never seen him bowl with a red-ball I've only ever tried to suggest possibilities.
Thus far his career has suggested to me that he's nowhere near as good with the red-ball as the white, but four series isn't something you can make an inequivocal judgement on.

I think your problem is that the way you write gives a very strong impression that you don't rate Bond's ability with the red ball.

I have to say though, that given your comment quoted here, you have a very similar outlook to me. That is: you can't really judge based on the evidence of four series and the resultant statistics.

 

[Craig]

Are you sure about that?

I was thinking that Bond isn't actually ranked that highly would mean he's talking about a fast bowler that is, and started to move when he took the 9-not a lot in Bangladesh.

This was the post:

well apparently thats enough to be the world's best pace bowler these days.

he would have done it by now, but if he didnt maybe he would be better off visiting some of the experts around the world (particularly in australia). facilities in christchurch may not be that great.

he's got a bit of time to work through. i'm sure he'll be back (he's still got that no.10 position waiting in the ROW side )

I'm sure he was talking about Bond.

 

[Nate]

if i had to name an all-time ODI team bonds name would be in there w/out a doubt. he is very good, no doubt.

 

[Raj123]

Are you sure about that?

I was thinking that Bond isn't actually ranked that highly would mean he's talking about a fast bowler that is, and started to move when he took the 9-not a lot in Bangladesh.

yes and no.
i was talking about harmison, but was using him to imply that bond could have been right up there at the top rather than having a go at him.

 

[marc71178]

if i had to name an all-time ODI team bonds name would be in there w/out a doubt. he is very good, no doubt.

All-time?

That's stretching it a little I think!

 

[Waughney]

Agree. He's only played 27 one-dayers. It would have to be NZ all time and even then....

 

[Nate]

All-time?

That's stretching it a little I think!

shiiiiiiiiiiite, i meant nz all time team of course. and thats just my personal opinion. not world XI, my bad.