BazBall21
International Captain
Yeah Smith is better.
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Better opener : Graeme Smith vs Sehwag
- Thread starter DrWolverine
- Start date
what is the point of quality if not a utility for ateam? Surely that’s the only measure of quality
kyear2
International Coach
Wait a minute.
There was no caveats for your statement. Why introduce them now.
Sehwag scored runs on pitches not overly conducive to pace bowling.
That's not equivalent to facing weaker teams?
kyear2
International Coach
How much would Viru have averaged if he was playing atat home vs Australia in South Africa?
capt_Luffy
Cricketer Of The Year
I think it would be foolish to take my statement on outputs by literal just amount. There are ofcourse a variety of things that define output, not just quantity, quality being one of them.
Sehwag did scored runs on pitches overly conductive to spin.
Interesting question....... I wonder if it would had been lower than 25.78. Also wonder how much Graeme Smith would had averaged opening in India vs SL.
capt_Luffy
Cricketer Of The Year
I will be honest, I forgot how poor Smith's home record was. Vs:
Australia: 11m 490@25.78
New Zealand: 7m 275@27.5
Sri Lanka: 5m 206@29.42
Did alright vs Pakistan and India (36 and 39) and was good against England (43), but damn if those numbers would get flack had they came away.
Australia: 11m 490@25.78
New Zealand: 7m 275@27.5
Sri Lanka: 5m 206@29.42
Did alright vs Pakistan and India (36 and 39) and was good against England (43), but damn if those numbers would get flack had they came away.
sayon basak
International Debutant
So, change your vote. No pressure
capt_Luffy
Cricketer Of The Year
*Insert the Snape meme again*So, change your vote. No pressure
subshakerz
Hall of Fame Member
Because in determining greatness we care more about quality than how much home pitches helped them.
do you always use the “royal we” or do you have fleas?
subshakerz
Hall of Fame Member
No I use it when I feel there is a fair decent consensus around this issue outside a certain clique of posters.
I think it’s pretty obvious to anyone that the highest quality player is the one who adds the most value to their team. Anything else is pointless abstraction.
subshakerz
Hall of Fame Member
No it's not. Most here value foreign and away equally if not moreso foreign. They don't give bonus points to home unless the conditions are difficult.
I have no idea what you are talking about.
the point is players should be rated on how they actually performed and their actual contributions to their teams success, not some theoretical assessment of how they would perform in some theoretical set of conditions where they don’t play or play very little
.
subshakerz
Hall of Fame Member
Dude what do you think we are arguing?
We are arguing the same but the only difference is we care about where they perform too. We don't think performing better disproportionately in more favorable conditions is the mark of a better player.
that’s probably where I disagree. While I certainly value performances in more challenging conditions more than favourable conditions, I believe in certain rare cases it may be possible to be SO dominant in favourable conditions that it compensate for deficiencies outside of those conditions. It’s not a sine qua non for me that records be balanced in exceptional cases.
subshakerz
Hall of Fame Member
Yeah that's where we definitely disagree. I have seen enough flat track bullies like Mohd Yousuf and Jaya looking like gods when things are easy to be swayed into thinking they are better than they are.
you are not reading what I’m writing. Yousufor Jayasuriya are not my examples. Sehwag and Anderson (who were arguably the GOATs in favourable conditions) are.
subshakerz
Hall of Fame Member
Why isn't Yousuf a GOAT in his favorable conditions?
capt_Luffy
Cricketer Of The Year
Come now! You know full well that there are tons of guys who could had scored like Yousuf at those pitches. You yourself called Sehwag the best player of spin ever in this very Thread. You get what he is meaning, you just disagree to the extent.