Better ODI Batsman : Gayle or Sehwag?

[Jacknife]

yeah but the point that VCS was trying to make was that even accounting for the fact that Dravid might not be an ATG he still deserves a place ahead of Stuart Broad any day in a ranking of top ODI players.

Broad didn't get a vote in the 50 best ODi players thing, he does average 25 though, which are very good stats nowadays but he's only played 76 games.

 

[smash84]

Can perfectly understand why that happened - they're not that good at ODIs relatively speaking.

Yousuf is a minnow basher who only averages over 40 against one proper nation.
Dravid averaged under 40 and didn't strike that quickly.

Yousuf has almost 38 against aussies, almost 39 against India and England, 36 against NZ, 35 against SA, 34 against SL. He has a decent ODI record against almost all countries.

And in ODIs an average of 40 against all nations has been achieved by just how many batsmen??? Would you please care to define your relative markers???? A pretty silly statement to make tbh

Out of curiosity, why forty? Just went through Mohammad Yousuf's stats - he averages just a shade under forty against quite a few teams. That is good enough for ODIs, surely?

Yeah. He has a decent ODI record against most teams. Thanks for pointing it out.

Batting records | One-Day Internationals | Cricinfo Statsguru | ESPN Cricinfo

 

[marc71178]

Out of curiosity, why forty? Just went through Mohammad Yousuf's stats - he averages just a shade under forty against quite a few teams. That is good enough for ODIs, surely?

Good enough for ODIs maybe, yes but not good enough to be classed amongst the best all timers.

 

[smash84]

Broad didn't get a vote in the 50 best ODi players thing, he does average 25 though, which are very good stats nowadays but he's only played 76 games.

this does make perfect sense

Nothing sensational about Broad given that he leaks more than 5 RPO which are not is a very healthy number. It is called expensive. Just to give you an idea even Mohammad Sami has an ER of 4.89.

 

[tooextracool]

Seems about as worthwhile as deciding whether Abey Kuruvilla or Debashish Mohanty is more likely to make the current Indian side. Not sure who in their right mind would nominate either of them.

 

[Blaze 18]

 

[Jacknife]

Nothing sensational about Broad given that he leaks more than 5 RPO which is not decent. It is called expensive.

What you comparing Broad with a batsmen for anyway, he still get's plenty of wickets and going at just over 5, when you bowl in all the power plays isn't bad at all. Like I said don't know where you're going with this .

 

[smash84]

Seems about as worthwhile as deciding whether Abey Kuruvilla or Debashish Mohanty is more likely to make the current Indian side. Not sure who in their right mind would nominate either of them.

What you comparing Broad with a batsmen for anyway, he still get's plenty of wickets and going at just over 5, when you bowl in all the power plays isn't bad at all.

It all started with the CW top 50 ODI cricketers list. The fact that Dravid and MoYo were not nominated and Stuart Broad gets nominated ahead of them sounds ludicrous. That is the whole point. Do you get it now??? Maybe you can go over the last 2 pages to get an idea of where this is coming from

 

[Jacknife]

this does make perfect sense

Nothing sensational about Broad given that he leaks more than 5 RPO which are not is a very healthy number. It is called expensive. Just to give you an idea even Mohammad Sami has an ER of 4.89.

Mate, you brought Broad up, saying

Dravid and Mohammed Yousuf didn't even get nominated, while the likes of Stuart Broad did

what's he got to do with anything when he wasn't in the list and the fact that there batsman and the other a bowler.

 

[smash84]

I was just going over the CW top 50 ODI cricketers list.. can you believe Dravid and Mohammed Yousuf didn't even get nominated, while the likes of Stuart Broad did?

@ Jacknife.....dude..........I am quoting VCS here..........he made this post.........I commented on it.........that was how Broad came into the discussion..........

I hope you can bother reading the posts as to who brought what into the thread.......

 

[Jacknife]

@ Jacknife.....dude..........I am quoting VCS here..........he made this post.........I commented on it.........that was how Broad came into the discussion..........

I hope you can bother reading the posts as to who brought what into the thread.......

Sorry mate, I read through the whole thread and forgot who made the comment. I thought what's Broad getting mentioned for, he didn't get a vote, let alone in the top 50.

 

[tooextracool]

Broad didn't get a vote in the 50 best ODi players thing, he does average 25 though, which are very good stats nowadays but he's only played 76 games.

Are they? Taking wickets cheaply never went out of fashion. The universal phenomenon is that ER's have gone up steadily over the last decade but there are some rank ordinary bowlers around that are taking wickets at averages and SRs comparable to some of the better bowlers of the 90s.

 

[Jacknife]

Are they? Taking wickets cheaply never went out of fashion. The universal phenomenon is that ER's have gone up steadily over the last decade but there are some rank ordinary bowlers around that are taking wickets at averages and SRs comparable to some of the better bowlers of the 90s.

I know what your saying but there's no doubt that teams are scoring more and faster than ever, some of which is down to the powerplays ,some of it, is down to advances in bat technology and players been more a custom to Twenty20 scoring. When you look back to the scoring in 50 over games, in the 80's and 90's, 250 was almost always a very good score, nowadays most teams, depending on the pitch, are looking for 280+ and in some parts of the world 300+.

 

[tooextracool]

I know what your saying but there's no doubt that teams are scoring more and faster than ever, some of which is down to the powerplays ,some of it, is down to advances in bat technology and players been more a custom to Twenty20 scoring.

Yes and hence why ER's are much higher. It has nothing to do with bowling averages or SR's.

Decade by decade bowling averages (see below) will confirm pretty much the same. This seems to contradict your statement.

http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/en...ing_strike_rate;template=results;type=bowling

Bowling averages have remained steady since the 1990s, but SR's have fallen. This seems to suggest that the by product of batsmen scoring at such quick rates is that they are also more likely to get out than ever before.

Theres a reason why the Broad's, Johnson's, Mills and Tait's are averaging what they are and its not because they are the best bowlers of all time.

 

[Jacknife]

Yes and hence why ER's are much higher. It has nothing to do with bowling averages or SR's.

Decade by decade bowling averages (see below) will confirm pretty much the same. This seems to contradict your statement.

Bowling records | One-Day Internationals | Cricinfo Statsguru | ESPN Cricinfo

Bowling averages have remained steady since the 1990s, but SR's have fallen. This seems to suggest that the by product of batsmen scoring at such quick rates is that they are also more likely to get out than ever before.

Theres a reason why the Broad's, Johnson's, Mills and Tait's are averaging what they are and its not because they are the best bowlers of all time.

Interesting the evidence seems to suggest run rate is going up, but bowlers averages are staying the same.
Whether it's down to batsmen giving their wickets away for quick runs, or these bowlers stack up to the players of the past, i feel it's hard to say, probably a bit of both. Especially in these days, when the game is definitely more geared towards batsmen, I don't think you can sniff at a bowler with good stats.

 

[vcs]

Broad has played, what 50 ODIs? Way too soon for him to be nominated over Dravid and Yousuf who served their team for a decade, however good his start is. Why not Tsotsobe or Morkel while we're at it? Tsotsobe's stats are much better than Broad's. Morkel's are comparable, with a superior ER.

Having said that, I myself did not email a list of players to NUFAN, so have no real right to criticise, but whatever.

 

[vcs]

Yes and hence why ER's are much higher. It has nothing to do with bowling averages or SR's.

Decade by decade bowling averages (see below) will confirm pretty much the same. This seems to contradict your statement.

Bowling records | One-Day Internationals | Cricinfo Statsguru | ESPN Cricinfo

Bowling averages have remained steady since the 1990s, but SR's have fallen. This seems to suggest that the by product of batsmen scoring at such quick rates is that they are also more likely to get out than ever before.

Theres a reason why the Broad's, Johnson's, Mills and Tait's are averaging what they are and its not because they are the best bowlers of all time.

Those are interesting stats. The runs per wicket in the recent WC also shows a similar trend. I agree with you that the higher scores these days are reflecting in higher ERs, but the bowling averages are not necessarily going up by a huge amount.

 

[Uparcut]

Remove minnows and this is what we get.

Sehwag : Average:34.50 Strike rate: 102.19

Batting records | One-Day Internationals | Cricinfo Statsguru | ESPN Cricinfo

Gayle : Average : 33.93 Strike rate: 83.83

Batting records | One-Day Internationals | Cricinfo Statsguru | ESPN Cricinfo

I know who i will have in my team.

 

[Uparcut]

The biggest fun is if the question is changed ;

And asked who is better wicketkeeper batsman in ODI : Dhoni or Gilchrist ?

The answer would be Gilchrist for God knows what reason despite Dhoni having average 12 more than Gilchrist and nearly same strike rate.

 

[Howe_zat]

Be honest, Uparcut, do you watch cricket through a Matrix-esque green code?