MasterBlaster24
School Boy/Girl Captain
Better test captain?
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Better captain in test cricket?
- Thread starter MasterBlaster24
- Start date
sayon basak
International Captain
Where's Frank Worrell?
sayon basak
International Captain
@capt_Luffy where do you rank Lloyd as a captain?
subshakerz
Hall of Fame Member
Imran is the best of those listed there followed by Llyod.
But tactically and in terms of positive cricket, Mark Taylor is the best I have seen and is rivaled by Chappell, Benaud and Armstrong among the greatest ever.
But tactically and in terms of positive cricket, Mark Taylor is the best I have seen and is rivaled by Chappell, Benaud and Armstrong among the greatest ever.
capt_Luffy
International Coach
Not sure really. Was Great defo, excellent man manager, and 4 pacers was a smart move, but also get the impression was a little more restrictive tactically.
sayon basak
International Captain
Even you know that's not true.
Cricket Bliss
U19 12th Man
DR Jardine…
He analysed Bradman and the consequences perfectly when whole of England like Frank Woolley, PGH Fender all predicted the failure of Bradman in 1930. He found the weakness in Bradman and reduced his stats in that series to a human looking one. His Ashes victory was the only one England won in 20 years all due to Bradman...Jardine analysed that well.
Also the inclusion of Eddie Paynter was solely the decision of him. When Larwood's career was almost over he bought back Larwood against the wishes of the Board analysing that only Larwood's strength could exploit Bradman's uncomfortness (Not calling it weakness).
He analysed Bradman and the consequences perfectly when whole of England like Frank Woolley, PGH Fender all predicted the failure of Bradman in 1930. He found the weakness in Bradman and reduced his stats in that series to a human looking one. His Ashes victory was the only one England won in 20 years all due to Bradman...Jardine analysed that well.
Also the inclusion of Eddie Paynter was solely the decision of him. When Larwood's career was almost over he bought back Larwood against the wishes of the Board analysing that only Larwood's strength could exploit Bradman's uncomfortness (Not calling it weakness).
Cricket Bliss
U19 12th Man
Imran is overrated. Lloyd is far better than him.
subshakerz
Hall of Fame Member
Lol it's the opposite actually. Lloyd had an ATG team. Yes he helped to build it but Imran had a far tougher job in Pakistan.
subshakerz
Hall of Fame Member
Mark Taylor had actual competitive challenges in defeating WI, SA and Pakistan away and managed it. As a test captain he was a tactical genius and as a man manager the team was incredibly mentally strong.
MasterBlaster24
School Boy/Girl Captain
I've included him now.
Cricket Bliss
U19 12th Man
How can we call a captain an ATG if he hasn't won any overseas tour. Couldn't win the 1989-90 home tour against a weaker India. There may be reasons but can't be labelled an ATG without any of these... On the other hand Lloyd even 'blackwashed' England overseas... Yes England was weaker than West Indies...but enough weak to get blackwashed at home? No.... and Jardine did the impossible
subshakerz
Hall of Fame Member
Imran won overseas in Eng and Ind. Unlike Llyod who got steamrolled 5-1 in Aus, he faced a superior no.1 team in WI home and away and held his own.
Lloyd's black washing is entirely due to resources he had at his disposal not captaincy acumen.
Lloyd united the WI side but Imran had a far more difficult task to unite the Pakistan side.
Cricket Bliss
U19 12th Man
Sorry my mistake that thought Imran didn't win in England... still even though Lloyd lost 5-1 overseas...he won 5-0 too overseas and if winning had nothing to do with captaincy...then explain how loosing was Lloyd's mistake ? then won there in 79..
and uniting West Indians and searching talent there was more difficult as they belong to different countries...unlike Pakistan were all belong in the same country (Not the quality of players im reffereing too) and Pakistan also lost a home series against India.
capt_Luffy
International Coach
@Cricket Bliss CB Fry wrote: Ofcourse I was a good captain, I had good bowlers at my disposal.
You can have the perfect leader and tactician and everything needed for captaincy, but can't win if your team is ****. Imran and Lloyd just didn't had comparable talent at disposal.
You can have the perfect leader and tactician and everything needed for captaincy, but can't win if your team is ****. Imran and Lloyd just didn't had comparable talent at disposal.
subshakerz
Hall of Fame Member
They won in 79 with the greatest team ever assembled. Anybody could have captained them and won that series or England blackwashes. I was just comparing how Lloyd fared against a No.1 side relative to Imran.
Sorry but Pakistan cricket is rife with incidents of captaincy revolts and conspiracies and infighting. Thats how Miandad before Imran was removed. The fact that he could captain with stability for a decade is a minor miracle.
subshakerz
Hall of Fame Member
The thing is we can judge Lloyd before 79 as he had a team that was competitive but not unbeatable. After that, anybody could have captaincy that team frankly to series victories.
Lloyd deserved credit for building and uniting the side but he gets overrated due to his victory splurge.
capt_Luffy
International Coach
I don't rate Lloyd in the absolute top echelon honestly. Great leader and the 4 man pace attack worked wonders, but his tactics were a bit rigid as far as I got to know.