Best Test Captain

[archie mac]

Ian Chappell

Also MA Noble, Joe Darling and Mike Brearley

WW Armstong has a fair record 8 wins 2 draws 0 losses

 

[PhoenixFire]

This is one of those assessments that it's nearly impossible to make without having extensively watched the captain at work. I will add this though, that I think leading an amazing team is much less challenging than leading an ordinary team, which is why I find it hard to rate Ponting's captaincy. Astute field placements and effective man management aren't as essential when you're captaining players like Warne, McGrath, Hayden, Hussey, etc. Their individual efforts are going to do a lot of the work for you, IMO.

If I was going to choose an Australian captain, I'd go for Border - he had an excellent side, but it was nowhere near as far ahead talent-wise as the current Australian team.

Stephen Fleming is the best captain I've ever seen, but that's mainly because I've watched New Zealand far more often than any other team. He's certainly done a lot to raise this team above where they might normally have been, based on pure talent.

I agree with everything you've just said.

 

[Tim]

I'll be interested to see Ponting's captaincy in tests now that he's lost 2 of the greatest bowlers ever after the Ashes.

 

[oz_fan]

1. Steve Waugh
2. Clive Lloyd
3. Mark Taylor
4. Imran Khan
5. Mike Brearley

 

[FaaipDeOiad]

Taylor is the best I've seen.

Best of all time is obviously hard to judge, but Ian Chappell would have to be very close. The turnaround in Australia's fortunes that he engineered was absolutely remarkable. One of few captains that took over a side that was struggling and maintained a brilliant record.

 

[Perm]

The Australian captains of the last few generations. Chappell, Border, Taylor and Waugh were all very good captains but I would say Stephen Fleming, because I'm patriotic.

 

[The Sean]

Ian Chappell

Also MA Noble, Joe Darling and Mike Brearley

WW Armstong has a fair record 8 wins 2 draws 0 losses

I've always found it interesting that Armstrong, despite his record, wasn't even ranked particularly highly as a captain even by his contemporaries - they didn't think he was a bad skipper, but most of the men of that generation and the succeeding ones rated Noble, Darling, Woodful and Bradman as better skippers. Noble is one who always comes up as a great leader - considering the strength of the England teams he had to face, for him to come out ahead in win/loss ration was a huge effort.

 

[archie mac]

I've always found it interesting that Armstrong, despite his record, wasn't even ranked particularly highly as a captain even by his contemporaries - they didn't think he was a bad skipper, but most of the men of that generation and the succeeding ones rated Noble, Darling, Woodful and Bradman as better skippers. Noble is one who always comes up as a great leader - considering the strength of the England teams he had to face, for him to come out ahead in win/loss ration was a huge effort.

'

Seems he was a very arrogant man, called the teetotallers the 'lemonade Brigade" and seems to have rubbed everyone up the wrong way, although he loved kids

 

[PhoenixFire]

I heard that Bradman was a very awkward character, and difficult to get on with. Didn't he have some feud against Bill O'Reilly because he was a catholic or something?

 

[Tomm NCCC]

The best captaincy I have seen has been from Micheal Vaughan.

 

[archie mac]

I heard that Bradman was a very awkward character, and difficult to get on with. Didn't he have some feud against Bill O'Reilly because he was a catholic or something?

I think that was only a small part of it, they never got on, and when Bradman (one of the selectors (I think)) left his good mate Grimmett out of the 1938 tour O'Reilly never forgave him. Fingleton also was no lover of Bradman

 

[aussie tragic]

I think this link may allow us to come up with the great captains

http://www.geocities.com/gwozok/postwar.html

For example, a great Captain should be able to make a difference to the team performance and you can see that the team ratings steadily increased during Ian Chappell and Mike Brearly's reign as captain.

 

[archie mac]

I think this link may allow us to come up with the great captains

http://www.geocities.com/gwozok/postwar.html

For example, a great Captain should be able to make a difference to the team performance and you can see that the team ratings steadily increased during Ian Chappell and Mike Brearly's reign as captain.

Makes things a bit tough if you take over a team almost at the top, not much room left to improve. Lloyd should come out of this well?

 

[aussie tragic]

Makes things a bit tough if you take over a team almost at the top, not much room left to improve. Lloyd should come out of this well?

Well you can also turn it around by looking for where a team declined after the captain left, e.g. WI has been is steady decline since Lloyd left, however have a look at how WI improved when Lloyd was captain.

http://www.geocities.com/gwozok/profera.html

 

[Poker Boy]

I think the great captains are what I call "improvers" rather than "inheritors" as it is definately harder to captain and improve an inferior team. For that reason I would rate Hutton, Illingworth, Border, Ian Chappell and Lloyd as the five best. None of their teams were the best in the world when they took the job but you could argue that four of them left the job with their team as the best and in the fifth case (Border) he missed out on beating the Windies by 1 run and a year later Australia did beat them . If I had to pick one it would be Border - Australia were so bad when he took over and yet when he left they were No 2 in the world and poised to be No 1.

 

[Arrow]

Looking at % is just stupid because the captain depends on the team. You have to see what the captain does with the team, his intelligence, strength of character, tactics ect.

Border doesnt get enough credit for bringing australia through the dark years and to almost the top of the tree. If they didnt lose at adelaide by 1 run they would have been the best in the world back in 1992 and probably still were anyway.
Border was tough as nails and a real fighter, and as a captain I cant see how waugh and Ponting are even in the same class.
Taylor was a master tactician so he would be up there as well.

 

[Choc]

Ponting may be the obvious choice but he is a brilliant reader of the game and has the players to back him up. Steve Waugh was great and from a South African perspective I'd go with Hansie. Lloyd was brilliant in his own right but Lara has made some real improvements of late though I don't know his record? Though I must admit Fleming is a genius no matter who you support. I'd also give Ganguly a mention or to.

 

[wpdavid]

It's not an easy call at all. Yes, WI improved after Lloyd took over, but his captaincy also coincided with the emergence of Richards, Greenidge, Roberts, Holding and then a spate of great fast bowlers. How exactly could he go wrong?
Looking at Brearley, his tenure immediately followed two series against the great Aus side of the mid 70's and one against the almost as great WI side of 1976, so results were always likely to improve, especially as a lot of the sides he faced were weakened by Packer. Plus he had the sense to get out before England faced WI again. Plus he inherited Willis at his peak and Botham whilst he still took it seriously.
I rate Ian Chappell highly, but it did help having Lillee & Thomson to unleash against England in 1974/75. And perhaps people forget that Greg was actually in charge when Aus beat a very good WI side 5-1 12 months later.

It's not only about improving results, imo - there's too many other variables that can affect that. It's about adding value, which must take into account the players at your disposal and the quality of opposition faced. During my time, I'd plump for Imran, Howarth & Vaughan. And possibly Ganguly. Before my time, everyone seems to really rate Benaud, and I see no reason to disagree.

EDIT
Looking back at some of the previous comments, I'd have to agree with what was said about Border. Beyond what's already been said, his handling of Warne as he started his career was absolutely brilliant at a time when SW really needed that sort of backing.
Hutton's also a decent shout. He did benefit from a truckload of great players emerging soon after he took over, but they were young during his tenure and he handled them brilliantly to win in Aus (apart from doing a Nasser at Brisbane, of course).
Illingworth was OK, but a bit like Brearley in that he was lucky regarding the standard of opposition. He probably had the best opening batters and best fast bowler in the world at a time when standards weren't great, excluding SA, who he never had to face.