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Best team since Waugh/ Ponting’s Australia?
- Thread starter Chrish
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I would say the 1948 Australians are definitely breathing down Taylor/Waugh/Ponting Australia and the great WI side. Might have even been better.
Du you even know the India team achievement ?? What NZ achivement is apart from a champion trophy and a WTC title.you've won a solitary test here in my lifetime. here is the fearsome side you beat.
NZ vs IND Cricket Scorecard, 1st Test at Hamilton, March 18 - 21, 2009
Get cricket scorecard of 1st Test, NZ vs IND, India tour of New Zealand 2008/09 at Seddon Park, Hamilton dated March 18 - 21, 2009.www.espncricinfo.com
might go to bay oval on tuesday and pose with the test mace.
Salamuddin
International Debutant
The Australian sides from 1999 to 2006/07 and the Windies sides from 1980 to 1987 were two of the best teams of all time no doubt.
Not sure I put the Australian sides from 1990-1998 and the Windies sides from 87-95 in the same category.
Virat Kohlis India actually has a superior win loss ratio to both of those latter two sides.
Spark
Global Moderator
Yeah like it's on the cusp. But, you know, that's still an "if".
centurymaker
Cricketer Of The Year
That is the part which is defying all logic in this discussion. All these old sena sides need to be evaluated based on how they performed in India in particular and also in Pak/UAE and to lesser extent SL.
Salamuddin
International Debutant
Even if kohli doesn’t regain supreme run scoring form surely India are stronger than they are at present with Vihari at 3 and Gill at 5.
honestbharani
Whatever it takes!!!
I think I have saved myself going through some 5 pages of silliness there. This comparison has a fundamental faw which is that the parameters of what constitutes these "sides" are not very well defined. Strauss' England side had a numebr of great players but they were hardly together and dominant for even a year. Smith's RSA is the closest but we have the dilemma of whether it is the side with AB as the keeper or Boucher etc. Still remains the easiest side of the 3 to "Define". Kohli's India, if we take it literally, started out in 2016 and therefore, we have to consider the time the batsmen were amazing too. But I think the intent of the OP was to talk about this particular Indian side post Bumrah as he has had such a key role in us going to the next level. Which is post 2018. Still got some very good batting performances in there but not quite the same level as the other two sides. But we also have this flaw of one side still being active, while the other 2 are done. This is again an ssue we often face when comparing current players against past players.
To me, Smith's RSA is the second beest side I have seen, the first being noughties Australia. Kohli's India are 3rd and could be 2nd if they continue this momentum and keep winning for the next 2-3 years including the WTC. Very little room for actual complaints after that, though salt from the usual will continue and be welcome.
To me, Smith's RSA is the second beest side I have seen, the first being noughties Australia. Kohli's India are 3rd and could be 2nd if they continue this momentum and keep winning for the next 2-3 years including the WTC. Very little room for actual complaints after that, though salt from the usual will continue and be welcome.
Fuller Pilch
Hall of Fame Member
I'm trying to think how many 3rd tests away KDub has actually played. He scored series winning 100s in the West Indies and UAE in 2014 and 2018 and failed in the 3rd (d/n) test in Oz in 2016 after classy 100s in the first 2 tests. There were 3 tests when he debuted in India as a youngster too.
Teja.
Global Moderator
I feel the Indian team might be better than SA based on results but is very distant from dominant ATG sides like the WI/Aussie sides of the past. My reservations about calling the current iteration of the Indian side an ATG side is that they are not clearly and unmistakably better than every other team in the world and I think that is the basic criteria to be considered an ATG side.
We have played 5 tests against NZ in the past 2 years and are 1-3. Do I think NZ is a better side than India overall based on total results against other teams? Probably not but it's still fairly debate and when there is scope for such debate to exist and when basically most of our away wins are close and thrilling affairs, we still have some distance to go before proclaiming ATG status based on arbitrary criteria.
I think the Indian team has a good claim to be the team of this mini-era post the Aussie ATG team alongside a couple of other teams but India has not really posted close to enough dominance and one-sided scoresheets to transcend the era.
I think there is a lot of potential based on the current bowling attack though. A lot depends on how well 3-5 positions gets filled in the next few years.
We have played 5 tests against NZ in the past 2 years and are 1-3. Do I think NZ is a better side than India overall based on total results against other teams? Probably not but it's still fairly debate and when there is scope for such debate to exist and when basically most of our away wins are close and thrilling affairs, we still have some distance to go before proclaiming ATG status based on arbitrary criteria.
I think the Indian team has a good claim to be the team of this mini-era post the Aussie ATG team alongside a couple of other teams but India has not really posted close to enough dominance and one-sided scoresheets to transcend the era.
I think there is a lot of potential based on the current bowling attack though. A lot depends on how well 3-5 positions gets filled in the next few years.
Spark
Global Moderator
A lot also depends on how fit the bowling attack stays too. Many a highly promising attack was cut down/couldn't get together as early as hoped because of injuries.
centurymaker
Cricketer Of The Year
Yeah depends more on fitness of attack than middle order!
Seriously
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Flem274*
123/5
has a ton at lords against the real england and a coming of age ton in the taylorgate test in sri lanka. patchy away record but when you remove all the games he did well he actually sucks away from home.
edit - original text here a bit mean spirited given we've mostly got the adults in the room.
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Flem274*
123/5
I know Indian fans have been debating Iyer a lot but he looked pretty solid in his debut series and even if he's 'only' a HTB, that counts for a lot right now against the rampant jump in quality of global bowling.
edit - i also think india win the wtc final if conway and jamieson aren't parachuted in at the last minute (relatively speaking). they levelled up what was an aging side (watling, taylor) massively.
Cricketing IQ, hence my point proved. We are not talking about grammatical mistakes .lolSeriously
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Looking solely at the results rather than judging the individuals involved, Kohli’s India team is undoubtedly the most statistically successful team over a five year period apart from the great Windies teams (who did for three five year periods) and Aussie team (who did it for two five year periods).
I don’t think that’s particularly disputable although the gap between the top two and third is wide.
I also think the context supports the statistics - historically dominant at home and able to win meaningfully wherever the play. Beating a very strong Aussie side this year says a lotS
Therefore, to conclude the Smith RSA team is better is to believe cricketing standards have fallen off precipitously. Which I don’t.
I also think the talk of the India middle order belies the ATG great performance of the bowling attack collectively over the past few years. This is pretty unprecedented statistically - only the best West Indies teams have come close.
that’s why the team is a clear number three statistically with a huge gap between the top two.
I say statistically because there are teams who are better when you compare players head to head (Smith’s RSA, Pakistani in the 1990s) but the only thing that matters is results and here the Indian team is clearly ahead of the competitors
I don’t think that’s particularly disputable although the gap between the top two and third is wide.
I also think the context supports the statistics - historically dominant at home and able to win meaningfully wherever the play. Beating a very strong Aussie side this year says a lotS
Therefore, to conclude the Smith RSA team is better is to believe cricketing standards have fallen off precipitously. Which I don’t.
I also think the talk of the India middle order belies the ATG great performance of the bowling attack collectively over the past few years. This is pretty unprecedented statistically - only the best West Indies teams have come close.
that’s why the team is a clear number three statistically with a huge gap between the top two.
I say statistically because there are teams who are better when you compare players head to head (Smith’s RSA, Pakistani in the 1990s) but the only thing that matters is results and here the Indian team is clearly ahead of the competitors
TheJediBrah
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Sometimes I think the regular Indian posters can be excessively one-eyed even by CW standards but then you see a thread like this and realise they are actually nowhere near as bad as they could be
subshakerz
International Coach
The answer is clearly South Africa in terms of an all-round team for all conditions. 9 years unbeaten away from home is too impressive a record to ignore, far more than India's home record.
Once Philander joined their team, they were much stronger at home as well until Kallis retired and Australia beat them in 2014.
India's batting lineup was far too collapse prone in swinging conditions. The batting core of Smith, Amla, Kallis and ABD were superb in all virtually all countries.
Once Philander joined their team, they were much stronger at home as well until Kallis retired and Australia beat them in 2014.
India's batting lineup was far too collapse prone in swinging conditions. The batting core of Smith, Amla, Kallis and ABD were superb in all virtually all countries.
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