Best South African post-isolation XI

[Maximas]

I think it's a more than simply potential as he's taken 74 wickets in 20 matches at an average of 28.36. That's a decent record already, and better than any other spinner.

No doubt it's a good record so far, but like I said he's yet to tour the subcontinent, we need to see how he fares in foreign conditions (where his role becomes more important also) before we can truly make an evaluation, hence we're going off potential to some extent.

It's still early days too, but spinners do tend to peak at around the age group he's entering into.

Having said that, the weakness of the competition means even if he largely fails in the SC over time - if he continues to perform well at home and in similar conditions that still puts him above the rest arguably

 

[StephenZA]

No doubt it's a good record so far, but like I said he's yet to tour the subcontinent, we need to see how he fares in foreign conditions (where his role becomes more important also) before we can truly make an evaluation, hence we're going off potential to some extent.

It's still early days too, but spinners do tend to peak at around the age group he's entering into.

Having said that, the weakness of the competition means even if he largely fails in the SC over time - if he continues to perform well at home and in similar conditions that still puts him above the rest arguably

Thing is you are comparing him to a normal spinner and not a SA spinner.... few matches/series have been won by SA spinners even in the Sub continent, so he is our only spinner to actually choose from compared to all the other SA spinners. Hence also people putting up 6 seamers....

 

[Maximas]

Having said that, the weakness of the competition means even if he largely fails in the SC over time - if he continues to perform well at home and in similar conditions that still puts him above the rest arguably

Thing is you are comparing him to a normal spinner and not a SA spinner.... few matches/series have been won by SA spinners even in the Sub continent, so he is our only spinner to actually choose from compared to all the other SA spinners. Hence also people putting up 6 seamers....

It would appear I've made this consideration in fact.

I'm just pointing out that he hasn't played as long as the others (Boje, Adams, and Harris all played around double the amount of tests Maharaj has played so far) and hasn't made a tour to the SC, which is a key yardstick by which a spinners career is measured (even Warne is criticised for his record in India for example). So essentially, you have got a guy who's made a good start in conditions he knows fairly well, up against guys who have completed their careers in a variety of conditions, therefore it's hard to make a comparison.

As for 6 seamers, I understand the methodology, but spin bowlers are a key feature of any cricket team, and rarely do SA field a team without one, so I think it's appropriate to choose one personally.

 

[Borges]

tour to the SC, which is a key yardstick by which a spinners career is measured

Performance on a tour to England is a much better measure of how good a spinner is. IMHO.

 

[Maximas]

Performance on a tour to England is a much better measure of how good a spinner is. IMHO.

Being able to perform both in adverse conditions and the ability to take advantage of favourable conditions are equally important if you ask me, spinners become matchwinners in the SC

 

[Borges]

Conditions in England are not adverse; they are very favourable to spinners. Good spinners have always done well in England.
By spinners, I mean spinners: ie. not Jadeja.

 

[Red]

Good to see Maharaj having started well because Tayfield was the last decent SA spinner. I would wait another 20 tests before including Maharaj, which means going with all pace for this. But hey, you have to earn your way into these sort of sides!

Smith
Kirsten
Amla
Kallis
DeVilliers
McMillan
Boucher
Pollock
Philander
Steyn
Donald


Maharaj to potentially replace Philander at some point.

 

[Days of Grace]

Smith
Kirsten
Amla
Kallis
de Villiers
Cullinan
de Kock+
Pollock
Steyn
Donald
Adams

 

[AndrewB]

How do they compare with the best isolation XI?

 

[Quaggas]

Robin Jackman picks his South African XI of the 80s

Excludes anyone that ever played a test for SA (eg Pollock, Richards). Don't think it stacks up, but quite a few that would have gone well, one thinks - Rice, Kourie, Kirsten. Latter better than his brother imo. Also, ofc, excludes player of color, unless you count Kourie (our secret weapon at Newlands).

Edit I see that Kirsten did play for SA @37y....

 

[Marius]

Robin Jackman picks his South African XI of the 80s

Excludes anyone that ever played a test for SA (eg Pollock, Richards). Don't think it stacks up, but quite a few that would have gone well, one thinks - Rice, Kourie, Kirsten. Latter better than his brother imo. Also, ofc, excludes player of color, unless you count Kourie (our secret weapon at Newlands).

Edit I see that Kirsten did play for SA @37y....

Don't think Kourie was a POC, he was Lebanese.

 

[Marius]

Robin Jackman picks his South African XI of the 80s

Excludes anyone that ever played a test for SA (eg Pollock, Richards). Don't think it stacks up, but quite a few that would have gone well, one thinks - Rice, Kourie, Kirsten. Latter better than his brother imo. Also, ofc, excludes player of color, unless you count Kourie (our secret weapon at Newlands).

Edit I see that Kirsten did play for SA @37y....

Jimmy Cook also played Tests.

 

[Zinzan]

For me Boucher to DeKock is as Healy to Gilchrist but with a smaller gap in the batting. I'd still go Boucher. He seemed very good at knuckling down when the team was in a bind but with a long career I could be just remembering a few isolated innings.

Boucher at this point, but de Kock likely to harden his case as time goes on.

 

[Quaggas]

Jimmy Cook also played Tests.

Yeah, basically more mid-80's with any that played before isolation excluded.

 

[Quaggas]

Don't think Kourie was a POC, he was Lebanese.

Suppose the definition varies across geography and time

 

[Dendarii]

Yeah, basically more mid-80's with any that played before isolation excluded.

But should those who played before isolation be excluded? Donald, Kirsten, and Cullinan all started their first class careers during isolation, with Donald playing in the rebel tours. That means it's perhaps a bit of double standard to restrict the isolation team to players whose complete careers took place during isolation while not restricting the post-isolation team similarly, and Richards and Procter end up being hard done by.

So perhaps a better way of compiling an isolation team would be to look at the records from the rebel tours. If the stats here are correct, then the best XI from that those that played against the rebels would probably be the following (although Richards and Procter still miss out).

Cook
Fotheringham
Kirsten
Pollock
McEwan
Rice
Kourie
Le Roux
Jennings
Jefferies
Van der Bijl

That's a good team, but I think post-isolation would come out on top.

 

[Maximas]

but de Kock likely to harden

Yep

 

[Prince EWS]

Definitely from this twelve for mine:

Smith
Kirsten
Amla
Kallis
de Villiers
Cullinan
Boucher
Pollock
Philander
Maharaj
Steyn
Donald

I'd probably leave Donald out at home (insane as that would have seemed just a few years ago), and Philander out away. Leaving Maharaj out at home would be tempting as that'd get the best eleven into the side but I can't bring myself to ever select five seamers.

Faf could potentially push Cullinan in the next couple of years.

 

[Dendarii]

Faf could potentially push Cullinan in the next couple of years.

If selections are based on opposition then definitely Faf ahead of Cullinan for Australia (and maybe Zimbabwe too ).

 

[The Hound]

Smith
Amla
Gibbs
Kallis
De Villiers
De kock
Klusner
Pollock
Donald
Steyn
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