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Best post war pacer

Richard

Cricket Web Staff Member
C_C said:
The highest speed he has been recorded in the databases is 145kph, which is just over 90mph.
I hope you're not referring to the CricInfo databases - they're seemingly just random samples.
However, top speed is irrelevant......whats relevant is what is your mean speed....and in that category, McGrath is mid-80mph range.....which is medium pacer.
McGrath's mean speed in Test-cricket in 1998 and 1999 was 85.6mph. They showed it during the 'Gabba Test against New Zealand.
And no, mid-80s is NOT medium-pace. Medium-pace is low 70s. Late 70s is medium-fast, early 80s is fast-medium. 85+ is fast.
 

Richard

Cricket Web Staff Member
bryce said:
well did i say he wasn't f*ckin' fast? you really have to stop doing this, i said he never had genuine pace - there's a difference, i admit he was quite sharp as i did see him bowl in this time frame
Stop doing what, exactly?
"Having genuine pace" to me suggests the ability to bowl deliveries in the 90s - if you can do that, I'd say you've got "genuine pace". You can almost certainly be categorised "fast" rather than "fast-medium".
 

C_C

International Captain
i beg to differ.
Anything below 90mph isnt fast.
Its fast medium.
84/85-89/90 is fast medium
and 77/78 to 84/85 is medium fast with below 77/78 being medium pace.
i use the term medium pacer losely....to define bowlers who arnt in the fast category.
 

bryce

International Regular
Richard said:
Stop doing what, exactly?
implying i said something which i didn't

Richard said:
"Having genuine pace" to me suggests the ability to bowl deliveries in the 90s - if you can do that, I'd say you've got "genuine pace". You can almost certainly be categorised "fast" rather than "fast-medium".
genuine pace you can normally seen from watching a player, they beat batsman with pace and really hurry them up, the likes shoaib, lee, bond, ntini and harmison fit in that category IMO and i don't think mcgrath fits in there - however if you do then that's your opinion and i'm not going to argue it
 

Camel56

Banned
If we're talking post Gulf War then the best pacer is clearly Our Sir Vancelot. Three consecutive interdominion wins says it all.
 

FaaipDeOiad

Hall of Fame Member
Although I think it is a bit hard to pick one bowler as the greatest in the post-war period, one brilliant bowler who often gets overlooked is Alan Davidson. His record is impressive enough on its own, but when you consider he about breaks even in most categories when compared to the 70s and 80s bowlers like Marshall, Holding, Hadlee, Lillee, Khan and Botham, it is remarkable that be played in a period so dominated by batsmen and well known for flat batting wickets. The gap in class is evident both in stories about his bowling and in statistics.

Davidson played 44 tests between 1953 and 1963, and took 186 wickets at an amazing average of 20.53, with an economy rate of 1.98. Both his average and economy rate are much better than the competition from his time, and his average alone is the third best of any bowler after the war, behind only Tyson and the little known John Wardle, and maintained over a longer period.

A few other bowlers from the same period:
Hall - 48 tests, 192 wickets @ 26.39
Valentine - 36 tests, 139 wickets @ 30.32
Ramadhin - 43 tests, 158 wickets @ 28.98
Fazal Mahmood - 34 tests, 139 wickets @ 24.71
Benaud - 63 tests, 248 wickets @ 27.03
Lindwall - 61 tests, 228 wickets @ 23.03
McKenzie - 60 tests, 246 wickets @ 29.79

The only bowlers which really come close from a similar period in terms of average are Englishmen, and I believe English pitches were notoriously difficult to bat on during the period, and scores for both sides were much lower there.
Statham - 70 tests, 252 wickets @ 24.85
Laker - 46 tests, 193 wickets @ 21.25
Trueman - 67 tests, 307 wickets @ 21.58
Tyson - 17 tests, 76 wickets @ 18.57 (best post-war average by a fair margin, but only a very short career)

He might not be the best in the post war period, but he would have to break the top 5, and is regularly overlooked.


With regards to the original question, I'd find it difficult to seperate Davidson, Trueman, Marshall, Hadlee, Lillee, McGrath and Ambrose.

In recent years, McGrath is the best bowler I have ever seen on flat wickets, and Ambrose is the most devastating on wickets with something in them for quick bowlers.
 

C_C

International Captain
Yes..davidson was an awesome bowler and a great.....he gets overlooked and primarily because of Sir Don's comment that Wasim Akram was a superior left arm pacer ( according to Braddles, Akram did whatever Davidson could do and more, at a higher pace).

its a pity that he is overlooked when picking the OZ alltime XI but personally, i pick him ahead of Lindwall due to the variation he provides ( difference between him and lindwall were not much).

Another great who often gets overlooked is Sir Alec Bedser.
I've seen many a time ENG fans pick Willis and Statham ahead of Bedser, something that has always baffled me.
 

SJS

Hall of Fame Member
Lillee's answer to this thread !!

Lillee in his book Lillee Over and Out lists his top 10 pacers. I must say here that he has not included Marshall and those after him since Marshall had just started making a mark when he wrote this. It still makes an interesting list.

Here thay are in order of his preference.
  1. Andy Roberts
  2. John Snow
  3. Jeff Thomson
  4. Michael Holding
  5. Imran Khan
  6. Richard Hadlee
  7. Joel Garner
  8. Graham McKenzie
  9. Bob Willis
  10. Kapil Dev

Naturally he has not included himself
 

BlackCap_Fan

State Vice-Captain
SJS said:
Lillee's answer to this thread !!

Lillee in his book Lillee Over and Out lists his top 10 pacers. I must say here that he has not included Marshall and those after him since Marshall had just started making a mark when he wrote this. It still makes an interesting list.

Here thay are in order of his preference.
  1. Andy Roberts
  2. John Snow
  3. Jeff Thomson
  4. Michael Holding
  5. Imran Khan
  6. Richard Hadlee
  7. Joel Garner
  8. Graham McKenzie
  9. Bob Willis
  10. Kapil Dev

Naturally he has not included himself
Funny, he put Jeff Thomson in front of Michael Holding, Imran Khan and Richard Hadlee....
 

steds

Hall of Fame Member
Swervy said:
Someone I used to know bowled Steve Waugh (amongst others) out in first class cricket...it was great when I was drunk asking him about it all
lol
 

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