Best player most people don't know about?

[Red]

Vijay Merchant

 

[Starfighter]

A lot of really old players, but I'll go for George Freeman.

 

[the big bambino]

Shrewsbury, if you ignore the OP, otherwise De Saram, Cec Pepper and Jack Walsh. Ellis Robinson the off spinner really was arsed over by the war and the seeming prejudice held by the selectors of the time for that style of bowling.

 

[Prince EWS]

Shrewsbury, if you ignore the OP

Yeah this is a great call. I think he was the trivia answer to a cricket quiz I was in to "worst averaging England #3 given at least X number of innings" or something, but given the typically much lower scores in a time he was actually a ****ing gun.

 

[trundler]

Yeah this is a great call. I think he was the trivia answer to a cricket quiz I was in to "worst averaging England #3 given at least X number of innings" or something, but given the typically much lower scores in a time he was actually a ****ing gun.

Century ratio is only second to Grace in that time. Was easily well ahead of everyone bar Grace in the 1880s. I think we could do a full squad now, haha. Maybe need more spinners.

 

[the big bambino]

I've given you three. Grace would rate Shrewsbury the best; after himself of course. That quiz PEWS was talking about really didn't understand just how difficult run making was in the day.

 

[a massive zebra]

A lot of really old players, but I'll go for George Freeman.

This.

Freeman has the lowest genuine first class bowling average of any bowler with a significant first class career - nearly 300 wickets at 9.84.

In 1900, A.W. Pullin released his book Talks with Old English Cricketers, which featured interviews with many leading cricketers of previous generations. Every single player who played against Freeman named him as the best fast bowler they had ever faced.

Here is a mini biography of George Freeman, taken from Harry Altham's A History of Cricket:

"George Freeman virtually played only five years in the County Eleven, retiring after the end of the 1871 season to take up a lucrative business, but in that short time he won for himself the unquestioned title of the best fast bowler in England; indeed, W.G., with all his fifty years experience, states unequivocally that he was the best he ever played. If figures go for anything, his are surely convincing enough: in those years he played in but 26 county matches, but captured in them 194 wickets for under 10 each. In pace he was not quite of the extreme school, but his accuracy and deadly off-break were unrivalled for a bowler that could not be termed even fast medium. It is delicious to read his own statement that he always preferred bowling on The Oval because there the wicket was perfect and he could regulate his breaks, while the rougher grounds were apt to upset his calculations. But for his habitual modesty Freeman would have been one of only three players to appear both for the Amateurs and Professionals in the great match at Lord's, for more than ten years after his retirement from county cricket he was asked to represent the Gentlemen, but declined on the grounds that his form hardly justified the compliment."

 

[a massive zebra]

Shrewsbury, if you ignore the OP, otherwise De Saram, Cec Pepper and Jack Walsh. Ellis Robinson the off spinner really was arsed over by the war and the seeming prejudice held by the selectors of the time for that style of bowling.

Not really. There were plenty of spinners from his generation achieving as good or better returns in county cricket. He played regularly alongside Hedley Verity whose first class bowling average was almost 10 runs lower.

 

[trundler]

Not really. There were plenty of spinners from his generation achieving as good or better returns in county cricket. He played regularly alongside Hedley Verity whose first class bowling average was almost 10 runs lower.

What's up with Mead not playing ahead of Chapman? Jack Russell and Sandham appear to have been shafted by this arrangement as well.

 

[ankitj]

Personally, had never heard of Aubrey Faulkner before I joined this forum. Now, he is someone I gun for in just about every draft where he is eligible.

I heard of him first when he was picked in SA all time XI by cricinfo. That was just a few months before I came to this forum.

 

[Burgey]

Add Colin Bland to any South African list. He was regarded as one of the world's best fieldsman as well as being a fine bat.

Good shout

 

[a massive zebra]

Looked up some Ashes scorecards. During Mead's career, at least 2 vastly inferior batsmen played ahead of him. Both Jack Hearne and Percy Chapman played about 25 tests as batsmen averaging under 30. FC averages of 41 and 31 respectively make the decision even more bewildering. Hendren and Wolley aside, there couldn't have been any better middle order batsmen around.

Jack Hearne was an allrounder who took over 1,800 first class wickets so arguably not a direct rival to Mead.

I think most of Chapman's tests were as captain. In those days England had a now largely obsolete class system in which it was considered inappropriate for a professional to captain England. Lord Hawke, captain of Yorkshire at the turn of the century and long time administrator and England selector, once said "pray God, no professional shall ever captain England". This viewpoint is difficult to comprehend today, but in those days the authorities believed England's honour, prestige and self respect would be tarnished if they were to be captained by a mere professional who didn't hail from a well bred background. So if all England's leading cricketers were professionals, Chapman was probably selected over superior batsmen such as Mead in order to maintain the amateur hegemony over the England captaincy. Sounds completely ridiculous to us, but it was a different world back then.

Also I believe Mead was a workmanlike accumulator with a great defence who tended to take his time to build long innings by nudging and nurdling singles. It's pure speculation, but perhaps England preferred selecting more elegant batsmen who were better on the eye? He really should have had a much longer career and been an England regular for many years.

 

[a massive zebra]

What's up with Mead not playing ahead of Chapman? Jack Russell and Sandham appear to have been shafted by this arrangement as well.

I explained Chapman/Mead in another post. Regarding Russell/Sandham, they were both openers and their careers overlapped closely with Hobbs and Sutcliffe. A brief look at the first class records will show the latter two were clearly better batsmen. Russell and Sandham have great test records but Sandham's average is underpinned by one triple century against then minnows West Indies. Russell only had a short test career and his first class record, while very creditable, suggests he would have struggled to maintain such great test numbers over a longer career.

 

[trundler]

Yeah that makes sense. I saw Sandham batting at 7 in one test so threw his name in the hat even though I knew his . Probably better than Chapman in hindsight though.

 

[GoodAreasShane]

I don't even care that most of these examples aren't entirely what I was hoping for, still an interesting discussion

 

[a massive zebra]

Yeah that makes sense. I saw Sandham batting at 7 in one test so threw his name in the hat even though I knew his . Probably better than Chapman in hindsight though.

I dont know off the top of my head where Sandham batted for England, but he was definitely Hobbs opening partner at Surrey.

If Chapman had been a professional from a working class background he wouldn't have got near the England side.

 

[Moss]

From More Recent Times:
Franklyn Stephenson
Taslim Arif
Padmakar Shivalkar
VV Kumar
Jamie Cox
Martin Love
Nadeem Iqbal
Pradeep Mathew (ha)

 

[Jarquis]

Ole Mortensen

 

[kingkallis]

van der Bijl I came to know just a few days ago when honestbharani picked him in a test match. He had a very modest FC career though.

CP Mead, CB Fry, Aubrey Faulkner, Jack Gregory, Charles Macartney - I came to know about all the legends only after joining CW.

 

[trundler]

I'm sad enough to know most of those guys from Wikipedia articles. Macartney, Faulkner and Melville popped up on statsguru. Learnt about lots of 19th century cricketers on here though.

I'll throw in Jock Cameron's name in the hat.