Best ever medium pacer?

[Daemon]

Vaas doing it over with Lara over a decade should qualify too then.

Just can't help yourself can you

 

[vcs]

Read that as "Vaas doing it with Lara for over a decade" at first

 

[Starfighter]

Except your last sentence contradicts the point your are trying to conflate earlier. If someone like Copeland is fm when he’s around 115 - 120 then Bedser and Cartwright wouldn’t be much different. So have we gone slower faster slower over the years? Of course the term covers a fairly wide range and is loose. It’s just the perception of the writer not a general comment on speeds. And I repeat the distinctions in pace grades were in vogue earlier than you say. Davis backs his claim with field positioning. You on cricinfo profiles. You’re entitled but I’ll go with the former thanks. As far as bowling speeds go you have an opinion which is fine but subjective. I don’t thinks it’s much of an issue. Players with long careers rarely mention it. You’d think they would’ve noticed if there was much to notice.

Actually read what I'm writing. 'Fast-medium' has gotten faster. Your objection to calling Copeland FM is because you are used to the predominant usage post-mid fifties, which is for bowlers from 80 mph or so upwards. Calling a bowler of Copeland's pace FM is an unusual usage these days, but I don't think it's a wrong one.

Davis' claim is from a single still photograph. Mine is from actually watching films of him bowling, thank you very much.

 

[the big bambino]

Actually read what I'm writing. 'Fast-medium' has gotten faster. Your objection to calling Copeland FM is because you are used to the predominant usage post-mid fifties, which is for bowlers from 80 mph or so upwards. Calling a bowler of Copeland's pace FM is an unusual usage these days, but I don't think it's a wrong one.

Davis' claim is from a single still photograph. Mine is from actually watching films of him bowling, thank you very much.

It may or may not. Who knows? Not even you on the evidence of comparing 2 cricinfo profiles of players years apart. . I'm just saying fast medium covers a range - just bcos it was applied to Bedser - by some, not all, doesn't mean what you think at all. Just that he's in the range. Similarly I have no objection to calling Copeland fm ... thank you very much. Go for it. Davis' photo was representative of the field. He doesn't need to review a hundred of them. I accept you've watched films. I just pay no credence on opinions derived from that experience.

 

[Starfighter]

I ain't using cricinfo profiles, I'm using what they were predominantly called in papers and articles at the time. My judgement isn't based just on Bedser, its based on watching over fifty different bowlers from the era.

Davis is a statistician. He's merely giving his opinion regarding distances. There's no special expertise. I'd personally trust the evidence of something that actually shows the player moving, but you can go your own way if it fits your opinions.

Similarly I have no objection to calling Copeland fm ... thank you very much.

And Copeland fast medium ... come on.

 

[Migara]

One dismissal for 221 in five test matches does not count as 'having the wood' over anyone.

And before you mention it, yes he did dismiss him 3 times in 13 ODIs for 1, 0 an 2. I would hardly consider this exceptional.

That is what happen when you only see score cards. Even Lara's best 221 at Colombo, Vaas had couple of plumb lbws turned down, and nearly a dozen times close calls. In ODIs it was not allowing Lara to score off...

 

[Migara]

Actually read what I'm writing. 'Fast-medium' has gotten faster. Your objection to calling Copeland FM is because you are used to the predominant usage post-mid fifties, which is for bowlers from 80 mph or so upwards. Calling a bowler of Copeland's pace FM is an unusual usage these days, but I don't think it's a wrong one.

Davis' claim is from a single still photograph. Mine is from actually watching films of him bowling, thank you very much.

The categorization of pace is according to the era as it seems. Fastest of the bowlers haven't got much faster, but the support cast have. Some times support bowlers are faster than the strike bowlers nowadays. I had to agree with the idea that fast medium has got gradually faster.

 

[Starfighter]

That is what happen when you only see score cards. Even Lara's best 221 at Colombo, Vaas had couple of plumb lbws turned down, and nearly a dozen times close calls against Vaas. In ODIs it was not allowing Lara to score off...

It's what's on the scorecard that counts matey. And I don't believe you anyway.

 

[Migara]

It's what's on the scorecard that counts matey. And I don't believe you anyway.

Oh nice to know that. And I never expected you to believe it, even it was on the score cards.

 

[the big bambino]

I ain't using cricinfo profiles, I'm using what they were predominantly called in papers and articles at the time. My judgement isn't based just on Bedser, its based on watching over fifty different bowlers from the era.

Davis is a statistician. He's merely giving his opinion regarding distances. There's no special expertise. I'd personally trust the evidence of something that actually shows the player moving, but you can go your own way if it fits your opinions.

You've come to an absurd conclusion about bowling speeds based on nothing more than stylised linguistic changes. Even that basis, unsound as it is, can't be sustained as I've seen all variations of bowler's speeds mentioned in articles throughout cricket history. Also Davis' efforts can't be diminished just to make yours seem better than what they are. We've all seen film. Davis atleast makes an effort based on visual evidence rather than merely watching it.

You dragging out my quotes on Copeland adds nothing to advance or prove your initial assertions whatsoever, except to reveal an inability to refrain from bitchily scoring a point. If you or anyone want to call Copeland fast medium go for it. I wouldn't but you can.

 

[SillyCowCorner1]

Dwayne Smith

 

[the big bambino]

Dwayne Smith

Bravo!

 

[Starfighter]

You've come to an absurd conclusion about bowling speeds based on nothing more than stylised linguistic changes. Even that basis, unsound as it is, can't be sustained as I've seen all variations of bowler's speeds mentioned in articles throughout cricket history. Also Davis' efforts can't be diminished just to make yours seem better than what they are. We've all seen film. Davis atleast makes an effort based on visual evidence rather than merely watching it.

You dragging out my quotes on Copeland adds nothing to advance or prove your initial assertions whatsoever, except to reveal an inability to refrain from bitchily scoring a point. If you or anyone want to call Copeland fast medium go for it. I wouldn't but you can.

Asserting something on 'stylistic linguistic changes'? The language has varied slightly with some terms becoming more common, it's bowlers that have changed for the same predominant term, and that's an observation I'm making. Again, I'm making an observation based on watching and comparing.

'We've all seen film'. What is this saying? How am I 'merely watching it' and how is Davis' effort more 'based in visual evidence'? Is a judgement of pace based off single, still, distant, photograph really better watching films from all different angles and being able to see the bowling action, trajectory of the ball, carry off the pitch, how the batsmen and fielders move and so on?

It's rather hypocritical to talk about my 'bitchy' reply when you are probably the most aggressive and rudest regular poster in Cricket Chat. Pull your head in.

 

[TheJediBrah]

Asserting something on 'stylistic linguistic changes'? The language has varied slightly with some terms becoming more common, it's bowlers that have changed for the same predominant term, and that's an observation I'm making. Again, I'm making an observation based on watching and comparing.

'We've all seen film'. What is this saying? How am I 'merely watching it' and how is Davis' effort more 'based in visual evidence'? Is a judgement of pace based off single, still, distant, photograph really better watching films from all different angles and being able to see the bowling action, trajectory of the ball, carry off the pitch, how the batsmen and fielders move and so on?

It's rather hypocritical to talk about my 'bitchy' reply when you are probably the most aggressive and rudest regular poster in Cricket Chat. Pull your head in.

Hey I'm right here ****

don't overlook me

 

[trundler]

Hey I'm right here ****

don't overlook me

Nah you've simmered down. For sheer longevity and cattiness it has to be Marc. Bloke's been around longer than I've been alive but only pops up to drop one liners that instigate shitfights.

 

[vcs]

Bravo!

A bit generous to call him the best ever TBH, maybe in franchise T20s he has a case.

 

[Flem274*]

jason holder making his case

 

[OverratedSanity]

Late career vaas was very very low 120s, even dropping into the high teens at times, but was still pretty effective.

 

[TheJediBrah]

Late career vaas was very very low 120s, even dropping into the high teens at times, but was still pretty effective.

Migara stop hacking other users' accounts

 

[OverratedSanity]

Migara starter pack:

- Lara was plumb lbw 10 times in the 2001 series and was lucky to get those runs
- Stephen Fleming was Vaas' bitch
- Glenn Mcgrath chucked under the pre-murali chucking rules.

Kindly add if anything was missed, thanks.