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Best English Openers

marc71178

Eyes not spreadsheets
Piper said:
In my opinion Englands best opener was Geoff Boycott he made wasn't it 110 first class hundreds?

Yes, and his Granny wasn't a bad player either by all accounts!
 

Richard

Cricket Web Staff Member
a massive zebra said:
More rubbish from Badgerhair as usual. Sutcliffe was well known for being a classically correct anchor in a similar mould to Boycott, and far from setting the pace in his partnerships with Hobbs, his Test strike rate (40) was far lower than Hobbs (57), and even lower than Boycott's (41). Infact it is in the bottom 10th percentile of all players with over 2000 Test runs. Sutcliffe was without question the slowest top class batsman of his day - a fact which is well known and can easily be proven statistically.
Can it? Despite the fact that balls faced weren't, for the most part, recorded in Hobbs' and Sutcliffe's day? Quite where you've got these strike-rates from I don't know.
 

Richard

Cricket Web Staff Member
Langeveldt said:
Personally I admire boycotts approach.. If one is very concerned about looking after themselves, and scoring runs for themselves, the team usually prosper anyway....
Defensive, crease occupying isnt necessarily selfish stuff...
My thoughts exactly...
I've never understood those who randomly criticised Boycott for supposed selfishness. I'd like to see anyone name some occasions where he cost victories when loss was certified against.
 

Richard

Cricket Web Staff Member
If you ask me it's quite simple - Hobbs, Sutcliffe, Hutton and WG Grace were so good it's impossible to say if any was better than the other. Just think for a second about the achievements.
Grace averaged over 39 in First-Class-cricket, and played into his 60s. In his 40s, he averaged in the mid 40s; in his 20s and 30s, his average came close to 50. And this in the days of pitches which would mostly be considered unfit for club cricket these days, when 20 was a reasonable average and 30 exceptional. In all likelihood, he'd average in the 80s or 90s were he to have the fortune of playing these days if you ask me.
Hobbs averaged 56 in Test-cricket, 50 in all First-Class cricket, and improved his Test-record a little in his games as a 40-plus-year-old. Often, he gave someone else a chance, as did Victor Trumper; had he been more concerned with himself and less with his team-mates, he'd almost certainly have averaged much closer to 60. His record for First-Class runs and centuries will, beyond all reasonable question, stand for all-time. Pitches in his early days were regularly very, very poor by today's standards, and even in his last few years were still poor.
Sutcliffe played in a similar era, with a little less longevity, and averaged higher than any Englishman to play 10 Test-innings. Basically, this tells the story.
Hutton, while possibly not quite as good as the previous three, still came very close, in days of wickets which were poor by today's standards.
Boycott, too, was a very good player; Gooch was the man who got me into cricket (but still averaged a very unexceptional 35 in Test-cricket in 1989); Vaughan had one golden year (thanks to lots of dropped catches and an Umpiring reprieve or two); there are others, like John Edrich, Cyril Washbrook and Michael Atherton, who rose above many.
But none of them come close to the big four if you ask me.
 

Richard

Cricket Web Staff Member
Thank you very much.

Either this fellow Charles Davis has done an astonishing amount of scorebook research (remember how many Test-matches Boycott and Sutcliffe played, and each big innings would take about 2 hours to have it's balls-faced worked-out) or he's making estimates based on comments. Or maybe he's using the runs-per-hour ratio, a common (but misleading, for obvious reasons) interpretation of strike-rate in those days. Still, 40 runs per hour is quite a few!
 

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