Best current international captain

[FaaipDeOiad]

Eh? In the link I posted above I took Ponting's last 25 Tests and he's been captain in all bar one of them.

Umm, what? No he hasn't.

Examples from each series:
http://www.howstat.com/cricket/Statistics/Matches/MatchScorecard.asp?MatchCode=1689
http://www.howstat.com/cricket/Statistics/Matches/MatchScorecard.asp?MatchCode=1679
http://www.howstat.com/cricket/Statistics/Matches/MatchScorecard.asp?MatchCode=1668
http://www.howstat.com/cricket/Statistics/Matches/MatchScorecard.asp?MatchCode=1656

 

[C_C]

That factor isnt really true for most awesome/excellent captains.
Imran captained his side with a broken foot and not doing an iota of bowling and did it magnificiently.
Brearley was such a poor batsman that he didnt need targetting to fail with the bat...but his captaincy was excellent as well as his player motivation.
Most throughout Ganguly's captaincy stint, his batting has been mediocre but he has been able to make hugely influential decisions in terms of re-defining a player's role..
Same goes with Ranatunga.... he was a mediocre batsman at best but captained the team brilliantly.
i think it all boils down to self confidence and the respect commanded. If you are strong enough, you sort of realise that your performance is irrelevant to how well you can motivate someone to perform.

 

[C_C]

T_C, i think you meant he was captain for the last 25 innings he batted...for Ponting has captained australia in 13 matches.

 

[aussie]

That factor isnt really true for most awesome/excellent captains.
Imran captained his side with a broken foot and not doing an iota of bowling and did it magnificiently.
Brearley was such a poor batsman that he didnt need targetting to fail with the bat...but his captaincy was excellent as well as his player motivation.
Most throughout Ganguly's captaincy stint, his batting has been mediocre but he has been able to make hugely influential decisions in terms of re-defining a player's role..
Same goes with Ranatunga.... he was a mediocre batsman at best but captained the team brilliantly.
i think it all boils down to self confidence and the respect commanded. If you are strong enough, you sort of realise that your performance is irrelevant to how well you can motivate someone to perform.

while they are some skippers that perform & motivate. E.G Waugh, LLyod, Richards, Ponting, Fleming, Chappell etc

 

[Scallywag]

Newsflash mate - last time bhajji got fined for overappealing, he didnt get warned by the umpire.
Infact, umpires rarely warn any abuse directed towards them- they only warn when the sledging gets outta hand. They just note in their pad and report it.
Get your facts straight mate.



Please substantiate this with proper evidence.

Straight from the ICC web site.

"This is the second match in succession that India has not bowled its overs within the required timeframe and no excuse was offered by the captain," said Mr Broad.

http://www.icc-cricket.com/link_to_...NEWS/2005/APR/229756_ICC-MEDIA_12APR2005.html

 

[C_C]

no excuse was offered by the captain

Either you are incredibly dumb or incredibly devious.

I would like to know how 'no excused offered" can be construed as "walked out of the meeting with the ref".

 

[Top_Cat]

i think it all boils down to self confidence and the respect commanded. If you are strong enough, you sort of realise that your performance is irrelevant to how well you can motivate someone to perform.

Fine in good teams but I personally believe that captains should be able to perform at least moderately well (40+ with the bat and less than 30 with the ball for bowlers). Brearley, for example, was a great tactician but I don't think he should have been in the side.

And Imran WAS performing with the bat as captain, y'know.

As for Ponting, total FUBAR on my part; I did actually select his last 25 matches, but forgot when he actually took over.

 

[Scallywag]

Either you are incredibly dumb or incredibly devious.

I would like to know how 'no excused offered" can be construed as "walked out of the meeting with the ref".

I read a news report where Broad was interviewed and he explained how Ganguly offered no excuse and just walked out, I have given you undeniable proof that Ganguly offered no excuse but I'm not going searching for a news article because you just cant accept that Ganguly screwed up big time.

 

[C_C]

I read a news report where Broad was interviewed and he explained how Ganguly offered no excuse and just walked out, I have given you undeniable proof that Ganguly offered no excuse but I'm not going searching for a news article because you just cant accept that Ganguly screwed up big time.

Not offering an excuse aint the same as walking out on somebody. If thatis your comprehension level in English, i suggest you sign up for ESL courses.
Infact, Wright said that they were all present till the match refferee dismissed them all after the meeting.

 

[Scallywag]

That factor isnt really true for most awesome/excellent captains.
Imran captained his side with a broken foot and not doing an iota of bowling and did it magnificiently.
Brearley was such a poor batsman that he didnt need targetting to fail with the bat...but his captaincy was excellent as well as his player motivation.
Most throughout Ganguly's captaincy stint, his batting has been mediocre but he has been able to make hugely influential decisions in terms of re-defining a player's role..
Same goes with Ranatunga.... he was a mediocre batsman at best but captained the team brilliantly.
i think it all boils down to self confidence and the respect commanded. If you are strong enough, you sort of realise that your performance is irrelevant to how well you can motivate someone to perform.

And the thing is even if you are a great batsman you still may not be a great captain as proven by Lara and Tendulkar. Regardless of their batting skills they are not very good captains but Ponting is a great batsman and yet he is still captain.

If anyone thinks the Australian selectors would select Ponting as captain without having confidence in his abiities while the likes of Gilly and Warne are available really have no idea about Australian cricket.

And if a monkey could captain Australia and get the same results then why do the Australian selectors burden Ponting with the captaincy when they could expect more from him as a player if he did not have the captiancy.

 

[Scallywag]

Wright said that they were all present till the match refferee dismissed them all after the meeting.

Could you substantiate that please.

 

[C_C]

And the thing is even if you are a great batsman you still may not be a great captain as proven by Lara and Tendulkar. Regardless of their batting skills they are not very good captains but Ponting is a great batsman and yet he is still captain.

And Ponting is just startign off with an awesome team.
He may very well turn out tripe or awesome. We dont know yet.

If anyone thinks the Australian selectors would select Ponting as captain without having confidence in his abiities while the likes of Gilly and Warne are available really have no idea about Australian cricket.

Are you sure you are an aussie ? Like....no..really ? REALLY ?
When has Australia *EVER* viewed captaincy as a short term option ?
In the last 30+ years, OZ captains have lasted a long time ( except for Hughes who wussed out). And with Warne going by series-to-series basis ( he might retire at the end of the ashes you know- or the next series) and Gilly getting long in the tooth, neither of them would fit the profile of aussie captains - for they wouldnt be around in another 2-3 years time and OZ doesnt operate that way.
One reason- and if i remember correctly, Ponting himself said so when he first became VC- is that he is the youngest of the stalwarts and is expected to last another 6-7 years by reasonable estimation.

And if a monkey could captain Australia and get the same results then why do the Australian selectors burden Ponting with the captaincy when they could expect more from him as a player if he did not have the captiancy.

I am not saying he is a shyte captain- all i am saying is, for a great team, captaincy is very nominal. Its almost like overseeing a skirmish between a german WWII U-boat and a Nimitz class aircraft-carrier sqaudron.
In terms of winning a match, captaincy skill comes second and player skills come first- for the best of the captains wont win with you and my granny in the team and the worst of the captains wont lose if the team is packed full of bradmans ,Sobers,Imran Khans,Gillys and Muralis of this world.

And like i said, one instrumental reason for picking Ponting is that he is the only one as a long term prospect expected to feature in the team 6-7 years from now when the vice captaincy was offered to him

 

[C_C]

Could you substantiate that please.

His last interview on TV with ravi shastri.

 

[Scallywag]

And Ponting is just startign off with an awesome team.
He may very well turn out tripe or awesome. We dont know yet.

Correction you dont know, Ponting has captained Australia for some 90 odd ODI's and is among the 12 most experienced ODI captains ever. BTW he turned out awesome.

 

[C_C]

Correction you dont know, Ponting has captained Australia for some 90 odd ODI's and is among the 12 most experienced ODI captains ever. BTW he turned out awesome.

Like i said, considering the ODI team he has, a monkey on autopilot wouldnt have fared much worse.
I havnt found his ODI captaincy 'awesome' and i am pretty sure most people agree on that one.
Its been decent...maybe good...but awesome? i dont think so.

 

[Scallywag]

Like i said, considering the ODI team he has, a monkey on autopilot wouldnt have fared much worse.
I havnt found his ODI captaincy 'awesome' and i am pretty sure most people agree on that one.
Its been decent...maybe good...but awesome? i dont think so.

Of course you wouldent think his captaincy was awesome, it was your team he shut out of the WC final. His come from behind wins in that series was absolutely brilliant.

 

[C_C]

Warne/Gilly as captain ?
Waugh quit just over a year ago.
Thats 2004.

This is the pattern of Aussie captaincy:

Chappelli : 6 years
Hughes : 7 years
Border : 11 years
Taylor : 6 years
Tugga : 7 years

The average is 7.4 years and the lowest tenure were Taylor/Chappelli for 6 years.

Which person in their right mind (which obviously discounts you btw) sees Warne-Gilly in the team for another 6 years, especially when one's said that 2007 world cup might be stretching it and the other saying that he is gonna retire pretty soon ?

Who else is there right now that can be expected to last 6-7 years in the team ,apart from Ponting ?

 

[C_C]

Of course you wouldent think his captaincy was awesome, it was your team he shut out of the WC final. His come from behind wins in that series was absolutely brilliant.

Sorry mate, i dont operate in the one-eyed 'aussie aussie aussie oi oi oi' fashion that you do.
As such, show me ONE instance where i showed dislike for a player because he has done awesome against IND ? if anything, that gets my respect. Insularity and one-eyed fanaticism is your domain. Not mine.

And come from behind win in the world cup ? right-O! a tourney where Aussies were unbeaten and the final where the match was pretty much over after OZ batted- real nice definition of 'come from behind win'.
I guess by that standard, Lara's 153* against OZ should be enough to re-christen him as Jesus Christ!

 

[FaaipDeOiad]

Like i said, considering the ODI team he has, a monkey on autopilot wouldnt have fared much worse.
I havnt found his ODI captaincy 'awesome' and i am pretty sure most people agree on that one.
Its been decent...maybe good...but awesome? i dont think so.

I don't see how you can really criticise his captaincy when he hasn't been beaten in his time in charge. I mean, yes he had an awesome team, but it had much the same players before Ponting, and he took it to the next level, and how many ODI series has Australia lost since he took over?

Since Ponting took over, Australia has been involved in 18 ODI series and tournaments. In the whole time, Australia failed to win just FOUR of them. That includes quite a lot which have more than just two teams. Following on immediately from Ponting's first series in chage (5-1 against South Africa away from home), Australia lost 2-1 in a winter series in Pakistan. Two series later in the Champions Trophy, Australia was knocked out in the semis by Sri Lanka. Australia then won 10 tournaments in a row, including five with more than two teams, one of which was the World Cup, in which Australia went undefeated. This streak was broken in September when England knocked Australia out of the Champions Trophy again in the semis. A few months later, Australia drew 1-1 with New Zealand after the third game was washed out, making up their fourth failure to win.

How can you seriously criticise a captain when his team almost never lose anything? I realise there are other criteria for captaincy, but all of them revolve around getting the best out of your team and improving performances, and Ponting has definately done that. In tests I think there are better captains who have been in charge longer and done more with their teams (Fleming and Vaughan), but in ODIs Ponting's record is simply phenomenal and he's basically taken every trick since put in charge of the team.

 

[C_C]

I am not saying he is shyte.
I am saying that going by his ODI performances, its nothing more than 'good'.
He inherited the team when the players were comming to their peak.