Best 5 Wicketkeeper Batsman Of Modern Era

[MW1304]

Would that it were so. Keeping skills seem to come a pretty poor second to batting when selectors chose test sides now. The two best pure keepers I've seen in the last three-four years are James Foster and Graham Manou, neither of whom is a rabbit of anything like, but equally one suspects both would be a position too high at #7 in tests.

If keeping was given equal weighting both, as packages, might come close to the incumbants, but even the most one-eyed Essex or SA fan doesn't push either's cart that hard.

That's true for selection nowadays, but I guess when you're determining "the best" over all generations, which is difficult in itself, you'd have to consider them pretty much equal.

Its interesting with selection, though, not sure many (or any) would take Foster over Prior. I guess Prior is well above average with the bat and average with the gloves, whereas Foster is well above average with the gloves and a bit below average with the bat. I'm sure you're right still, even if he was a better batsman I'm not sure he'd be in consideration. Haddin/Manou is a similar situation actually.

 

[Jacknife]

Is Matt Prior the most underrated Test cricketer of all time?

He is 3rd behind Flower and Gilchrist in the all-time keeper batting average rankings.

And yet many don't even have him in their top 5! Some have Mark Boucher ahead of him!??!!

Prior is the best post Gilchrist and in 50 years people will look back at him as an all-time great, when they just look at statistics and facts! Yet this era hardly notices him!

Agree and when you look at the stats it's night and day:
Prior has played in 47 tests, he averages 45 with 6 tons and 18 50's
Boucher has played 139 tests, he averages 31 with 5tons and 34 50's.
Fourteen point difference in average and already more tons, add to that a strike rate of 67 which a unreal..

 

[robelinda]

Agree and when you look at the stats it's night and day:
Prior has played in 47 tests, he averages 45 with 6 tons and 18 50's
Boucher has played 139 tests, he averages 31 with 5tons and 34 50's.
Fourteen point difference in average and already more tons, add to that a strike rate of 67 which a unreal..

Boucher has always looked to me like he's not quite up to it, decent technique but something missing upstairs, lots of rash dismissals and not much thought behind a lot of his innings. Prior has a commanding approach to his batting, its always looked to me that Boucher was a little hesitant to dominate and when he tried it was kinda half assed. He certainly batted really well early in his career, but then he crumbled against Australia regularly, we totally messed him up. Cronje actually called him the best batsman in the world in 1999, around the time of his ton vs England. FAIL.

 

[Migara]

[B]Only keeping skills:[/B] Ian Healy, Rashid Latif, Adam Gilchrist, Jack Russell, Mark Boucher
Only batting skills: Kumar Sangakkara, Adam Gilchrist, Andy Flower, Alec Stewart, Matt Prior
Batting skills while a keeper: Adam Gilchrist, Andy Flower, Kumar Sangakkara, Alec Stewart, Matt Prior

Overall, as wicketkeeper-batsmen: Adam Gilchrist, Kumar Sangakkara, Andy Flower, Ian Healy, Mark Boucher

Prasanna Jayawardane is a notable ommission.

 

[JBMAC]

Prasanna Jayawardane is a notable ommission.

In the scope of the players being mentioned you are, I feel, letting your patriotism over rule some common sense. Not a bad thing mind but you could learn alot here

 

[karan316]

Gilchrist,
Andy Flower,
Sangakarra,
Boucher,
Alec Stewart.

 

[OMM!]

1. Adam Gilchrist
2. Andy Flower
3. Matthew Prior
4. Kumar Sangakkara
5. Mark Boucher

That is including keeping and batting skills. More emphasis on batting in this era though!

Sangakkara only averages 40 as a keeper, so ignore his 70+ average as a non-keeper!

 

[zaremba]

Prior v Stewart:

In terms of batting ability:

- Stewart, when playing as a batsman > Prior
- Stewart, when playing as a keeper/batsman < Prior

At least judging by the averages, which in this case paint quite a clear picture.

 

[Outswinger@Pace]

Prior v Stewart:

In terms of batting ability:

- Stewart, when playing as a batsman > Prior
- Stewart, when playing as a keeper/batsman < Prior

At least judging by the averages, which in this case paint quite a clear picture.

That's a fair assessment, but judging solely by averages in unfair on poor Stewart who played in an era where the bowling was of a significantly higher standard.

Stewart was one of the finest natural strokeplayers against pace that I ever had the pleasure to see and some of his knocks against top-notch attacks were epic. Taking nothing away from Prior, who is a superb keeper-batsman for this era IMHO, but Stewart is a fair few leagues above him.

 

[OMM!]

Prior v Stewart:

In terms of batting ability:

- Stewart, when playing as a batsman > Prior
- Stewart, when playing as a keeper/batsman < Prior

At least judging by the averages, which in this case paint quite a clear picture.

Prior hasn't played as just a Test batsman, so we can't really compare that!

If Prior didn't have to worry about keeping/couldn't keep he'd still be batting 6 for England anyway and would probably be pushing for an average of 50+!

Ultimately, Prior's stats put Stewart to shame in all departments, including keeping, unfortunately. Alec was a legend for England, but someone better is here now!

Let's not let nostalgia and the fact Stewart was one of the 1st keepers most fans here saw playing for England cloud our judgements.

 

[zaremba]

Prior hasn't played as just a Test batsman, so we can't really compare that!

If Prior didn't have to worry about keeping/couldn't keep he'd still be batting 6 for England anyway and would probably be pushing for an average of 50+!

Ultimately, Prior's stats put Stewart to shame in all departments, including keeping, unfortunately. Alec was a legend for England, but someone better is here now!

Let's not let nostalgia and the fact Stewart was one of the 1st keepers most fans here saw playing for England cloud our judgements.

Yes, you could add "when playing as a keeper/batsman" after Prior's name in both of those comparisons.

Not sure I accept your logic that you can just add a few runs to Prior's average if he hadn't kept. Some players, and I think he's one of them, flourish when allowed to play with freedom they get as batsmen when (a) they bat a little further down the order and (b) they have a second string to their bow.

 

[OMM!]

He's played some fairly notable match winning knocks for Sussex of late coming in at 5.

His 90 odd not out the other week was utterly majestic. A class apart in a line up containing Joyce, Nash and Goodwin. Only 2 other players went past 50 in the whole match!

Was against an attack containing Tahir, Briggs, Ali and Cork too!

I agree, number 7 suits him and his style of batting. But I've no doubts he'd have become a far more all-round player with more time to work on his batting. He'd certainly have played a good 30-40+ Tests as a pure batter for England anyway!

 

[zaremba]

Yeah he's a good number 5 in county cricket but a FC career average of 40, without always having played as a keeper*, doesn't suggest that he's necessarily a world beater.


*In the first championship winning season, in 2003, he played as a specialist batsman, batting at 7 behind little Timmy Ambrose at 5!

 

[Migara]

In the scope of the players being mentioned you are, I feel, letting your patriotism over rule some common sense. Not a bad thing mind but you could learn alot here

I kindly request you to read the post I have made. I'll **** my self if some one says Jack Russel or Boucher is a better gloveman than PJ.

 

[weldone]

In the scope of the players being mentioned you are, I feel, letting your patriotism over rule some common sense. Not a bad thing mind but you could learn alot here

...couldn't have said it in a better way

 

[weeman27bob]

I kindly request you to read the post I have made. I'll **** my self if some one says Jack Russel or Boucher is a better gloveman than PJ.

Jack Russel is a better gloveman than PJ.

 

[ImpatientLime]

I kindly request you to read the post I have made. I'll **** my self if some one says Jack Russel or Boucher is a better gloveman than PJ.

Boucher you may have a point with but Russell is one of the absolute greats with the gloves.

PJ isn't fit to sew up his battered hat.

 

[zaremba]

I'm not quite sure what point migara was trying to make, and everyone's welcome to their own opinions anyway, but FWIW I don't see anything wrong with the suggestion that Russell is a better keeper than PJ. Russell was an outstanding keeper, perhaps the best in the world at the time when he played. Comfortably out-kept Ian Healy in 1989.

I'm no expert in wicketkeeping technique, mind you; I expect few of us are.

 

[ImpatientLime]

His standards seemed to dip in the mid to late 90s, his keeping in his last ever series away in the West Indies 97/98 was ragged at best but he really came into his own again when Gloucs became the premier one day outfit in the country. By far the best I've ever seen standing up to the quicks.

Shame our selectors never saw it fit to open with Stewart and allow Russell to keep on a permenant basis. Who needs a world class opener and gloveman in the same side?

 

[flibbertyjibber]

I kindly request you to read the post I have made. I'll **** my self if some one says Jack Russel or Boucher is a better gloveman than PJ.

Russell is a better gloveman than PJ. Probably still is. PJ was a joke with the gloves in England recently, easily outkept by Prior who nobody calls a good gloveman.