Ben Stokes vs Ian Botham

[Brook's side]

It‘s pretty difficult to top 2005, or THAT over against Ponting which was one of the most spectacular overs every bowled. But Stokes has been a consistent performer for many years with an excellent peak;

2016-20
Tests = 46
3421 runs at 43.30
110 wickets at 28.00

Where does Ben Stokes rank among the top allrounders of all time?

Over the last four and a half years, the England star has racked up truly special all-round stats

www.espncricinfo.com

I just don't think stats do Flintoff's bowling justice personally. I think he was a real quality bowler.

Stokes does a great job, but for me Flintoff was a level above with the ball (notwithstanding his stats).

Just an opinion though, and you make good points.

 

[BazBall21]

I just don't think stats do Flintoff's bowling justice personally. I think he was a real quality bowler.

Stokes does a great job, but for me Flintoff was a level above with the ball (notwithstanding his stats).

Just an opinion though, and you make good points.

He averages 29.7 away with the ball (39 tests). English pitches in his career were soft and flattish.

 

[Coronis]

You’re forgetting Stokes‘ 135 at Headingley which was one of the greatest innings of all time, and one that only a genius could have played. Botham’s 149 in 1981 was also great but it had none of the same pressure as Botham was merely setting a target for Australia to chase in a situation where England were already written-off and 500-1 against.

Yes Nathan Lyon should have run out Jack Leach near the end, but that’s really beside the point. .

I also think Kusal Perera is a genius.

 

[number11]

I was thinking about this today after Stokes latest fireworks. Stokes seems to relish the big moments - he is clutch AF. But Beefy is a legend, a true pure AR. Bat or ball, before his body gave way, he was a force of nature. Just rewatching the 81 Ashes. His returns v the best of his time are not great though. Still, if everyone brings their A game - can anyone be better than Botham?

I have an idea for a thread related to this. Beefy still wins for me - just.

 

[ashley bach]

Two or three more big innings from Stokes in the series, along with a surprise 6 wicket haul and this thread will start to balance out.

 

[number11]

Two or three more big innings from Stokes in the series, along with a surprise 6 wicket haul and this thread will start to balance out.

Stokes bowling is pedestrian.

 

[CartyDurham]

Botham 78 to 85 was his peak and he’s the better bowler overall

Stokes is the superior batsman and his bowling was looking good but injuries have clearly taken the sting out of that

forced to choose, I would take the peak botham

 

[ashley bach]

Yeah it's no comparison anymore without Stokes bowling, and even if he was Botham seems to outmatch him in that department.

 

[trundler]

Botham is just impossible to compare to any other all rounder because his highs and lows were so far apart and he was a totally different cricketer at different points in his career. At his best, he was probably a better batsman than Stokes too. Stokes has 13 tons as of now. Botham got there in 65 matches. But then he continued to be not-so-good. The last third of his career is Abdul Razzaq or Moeen Ali level. You can't really average out performances over his whole career in the way you can for most cricketers imo. The bowling is obviously a no contest. Nobody touches the perfect all rounder Botham. Current Stokes is probably on par with the transitional almost a specialist batsman Botham in the mid-80s and that last version was on par with the Botham impersonators England trialled in the '90s.

 

[number11]

Prime Botham was something very special indeed. His peaks would put his close to being England's best bowler and he was of course a devastating batsman.

 

[trundler]

A peak is a few years long. Botham for his first 7-8 years or 65-70 tests is pretty damn close to all round perfection. He was scoring tons more frequently than Boycott and taking 5fers more often than Bob Willis. It's not quite a full career's length but it is sustained excellence. He really had no business playing after ~1987 in hindsight. Or he could've stopped being a porky hippie ****.

 

[CartyDurham]

Botham held the top wicket taking by an England player for around 25 years or so ?

I was fortunate to be able to watch most of his career in England and he was exhilarating to watch as a young kid . At times you felt as if he was a one man team and did everything

his catching in the slips was top notch as well

he’s my favourite all time cricketer

 

[Anil]

Stokes beats Botham hands down in the Spirit of Cricket stakes…

 

[Flem274*]

Botham's bowling still sways it for me, but Stokes strongly reminds me of Smith and Cummins in the wobbling Australian side of 6 or so years ago where those guys were the cheat codes you type in to still win with arguably an inferior all round side at times (especially batting).

Stokes is definitely the best English allrounder I have seen the career of. Flintoff was very good and the better bowler but Stokes balances the side perfectly when fit and if unable to bowl still cruises into the #5 slot.

 

[Nintendo]

One thing that deserves mention is how a fully fit stokes takes his wickets. Botham was more a new ball guy at his best, no? Stokes is a specialist at breaking partnerships with the old ball, which I think may be a bit more valuable to a hypothetical all time 11.

 

[Coronis]

One thing that deserves mention is how a fully fit stokes takes his wickets. Botham was more a new ball guy at his best, no? Stokes is a specialist at breaking partnerships with the old ball, which I think may be a bit more valuable to a hypothetical all time 11.

May be more valuable considering their position in an AT XI, but considerably less so considering them as individual players in a vacuum.

 

[Majestic]

Stokes -

Bat - 7/10, Bowl - 5.5/10

Botham -

Bat - 6/10, Bowl - 7.5/10