Batty v Lara

[Rik]

Much as I dislike legside negative bowling, Giles will have to play that role at some times because we have bowlers like Harmison, Anderson and Jones who are incapable of playing the defensive role.

Batty is very, very unlikely to play barring injuries.

Whenever I've watched Stev0 bowl, it's been basically defensive fast bowling, intentional or not.

 

[Neil Pickup]

Wide outside off stump you mean? They're just a total waste of time and don't build any kinds of pressure on the batsman who can leave all day and then some.

Giles is more consistent and reliable where he lands it so can run to the gameplan more.

 

[Richard]

What do you guys think, should England attack with their spin options?

I don't think they have an option but to attack with the spinners.

If we get conditions Liam assures me are typical to West Indies - not helpful to fingerspin - then, quite simply, England's spinners are not capable of attacking.
You can set attacking fields and all, but unless the ball is turning you can't threaten a good batsman.
And to all those who suggest bowling negatively to Lara - left-arm fingerspin over-the-wicket into the rough is much easier to score off outside your off-stump than outside your leg.

 

[Craig]

Wide outside off stump you mean? They're just a total waste of time and don't build any kinds of pressure on the batsman who can leave all day and then some.

Giles is more consistent and reliable where he lands it so can run to the gameplan more.

Yeah but he doesnt look like at times to get wickets.

You are relying on a batsman to get himself out. Which to me says you cant really get a batsman out unless he gets himself out as said.

 

[Neil Pickup]

Yeah but he doesnt look like at times to get wickets.

You are relying on a batsman to get himself out. Which to me says you cant really get a batsman out unless he gets himself out as said.

Where have I said it gets wickets? The point was that Giles is most suited to the defensive role.

 

[KishanTeli]

And to all those who suggest bowling negatively to Lara - left-arm fingerspin over-the-wicket into the rough is much easier to score off outside your off-stump than outside your leg.

If Giles is to bowl negative, I was thinking about going around the wicket to the various left handers (Lara, Gayle, Hinds, Chanderpaul, Jacobs etc) and bowling outside leg stump, and pack the on-side field. Although knowing Lara fielders won't matter, he'll just get to the pitch of it and smash it for six.

To the right-handers, if there is a need to be defensive, Giles will bowl much the same as he did to Tendulkar.

Hopefully Vaughan will be more positive then Hussian was in his captaincy, we will just have to wait and see.

 

[Richard]

Positive captaincy won't overcome good batsmen on a typical West Indian wicket.
If Gayle, Lara, Chanderpaul, Sarwan and Jacobs play like they can it won't matter whether Vaughan has 5 attacking fielders every ball, there still won't be many wickets.
And if you bowl outside leg to left-handers from around the wicket they will simply nudge with the spin and hit the gaps often enough.

 

[Mr Mxyzptlk]

By entering a Test match as a specialist bowler with a defensive mindset, you limit your options of effectiveness considerably. If you're not willing to attack the batsman and you are hit for runs regardless, you've really no purpose in the side. Indeed that player's presence is far more of a detriment to the team.

West Indian pitches aren't spin-friendly, but they are friendlier for spinners than for seamers in general. That's because of how slow and lacking in bounce the pitches are. Still, if Giles is going to bowl defensively throughout the series, I don't see the point in playing him. At least Batty has given some positive intent...

 

[Richard]

So, as I thought, Caribbean wickets do at least offer more to spin than seam?
Just to clarify, I will honestly bow to your superior knowledge. No sarcasm intended.

 

[Mr Mxyzptlk]

The pitches don't offer anything extraordinary for spinners, but they are so slow that seamers tend to struggle more at times.

As such it's more of a lesser of the two evils.

 

[Richard]

Isn't anything being done to try and get any bounce and seam back into the wickets?

 

[Tom Halsey]

Giles is more consistent and reliable where he lands it so can run to the gameplan more.

Against Bangladesh, Harmison cut his pace down, and was actually very accurate.

 

[Mr Mxyzptlk]

Isn't anything being done to try and get any bounce and seam back into the wickets?

It doesn't appear so, although there are a couple of newer grounds in the country with good pitches.

 

[Richard]

Against Bangladesh, Harmison cut his pace down, and was actually very accurate.

Harmison has actually been quite accurate since the Trent Bridge Test. He was even accurate at The Oval, just got a load of wickets in the second-innings with poor strokes.