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Battle of the Cricketers

archie mac

International Coach
C_C said:
Actually courts back then were faster - they were mostly grass and grass is faster than concrete.
Federer wouldn't be as devastating with a wooden racket but if the oppostion ( say Tillden) had wooden rackets too, he would absolutely cream them ( i would be surprised if Tillden got a set off Federer) - simply because he has far higher technical proficiency, stamina, strength, flexibility and professionalism to win.

With Waugh, whatever he would've lost due to familiarity issues of the-then equipment and playing conditions, would've been more than made up for by playing against a lower quality field overall ( no, i do NOT consider Voce or Larwood to be of comparable skill and quality of Ambrose or Akram or Donald- nowhere close), playing with a far superior fitness level and professional drive.
I think you are wrong, Federer would be playing almost a different game, his big shots would not be winners, he would not be able to put anywhere near the amout of top spin on his shots. His serve would not be anywhere near the weapon it now is. It would be much more a game of tactics. I really think he would lose to the past champs.

Waugh has never played on a sticky pitch of which Hobbs was the best, and by some distance better then Bradman on such pitches. Bradman said Larwood in Aust. 1932/33 was the fastest and I think that is good enough for me. In the 1950s Sth Afr. came to Aust. they organised for Bradman to have a net with their bowlers, he proceeded to slay the best they could throw (no pun) up to him. I think your hero Sobers started in the 1950s?
 

C_C

International Captain
archie mac said:
I think you are wrong, Federer would be playing almost a different game, his big shots would not be winners, he would not be able to put anywhere near the amout of top spin on his shots. His serve would not be anywhere near the weapon it now is. It would be much more a game of tactics. I really think he would lose to the past champs.

Waugh has never played on a sticky pitch of which Hobbs was the best, and by some distance better then Bradman on such pitches. Bradman said Larwood in Aust. 1932/33 was the fastest and I think that is good enough for me. In the 1950s Sth Afr. came to Aust. they organised for Bradman to have a net with their bowlers, he proceeded to slay the best they could throw (no pun) up to him. I think your hero Sobers started in the 1950s?

Top spin isnt associated with metal rackets - the power you have while putting top spin is. Borg used to put top spin to his groundstrokes as well.
His(Federer's) big shots wouldnt be winners but his shot-making would be equal, if not superior in accuracy ( you forget how bleeding accurate these players are if they arnt going for a power shot) and his overall superior court fitness and methodical approach would finish off Tilden in 3 sets flat.
Not to mention, tennis players today are far more tactically aware than in the past.
All he'd have to do to ol Bill is to just make him run from corner to corner and Bill would fall flat in a jiffy.Very few tennis pros of the old think that they would stand a chance against the modern generation (Borg onward- when professionalism came into tennis) and Laver himself said that if he played the way he did, even with normalised equipments, he would've struggled to break into the top 10 in the 80s-onwards era.

As per Larwood- well, i dont doubt that he was fast. But fast doesnt mean quality. mohammed Sami is blisteringly fast but he is no great shakes.
And again, relative strength means nothing about absolute strength.
I am sure if i faced the best of the best of England's tennis players from 1800s, i would cream them all over the ballpark and same goes with cricket and Jack here.
Simply because their levels of fitness, technical proficiency and the challenges posed by the field was nowhere comparable.
Professionalism brings the field closer which it was not in any sport in the amatuer eras- sure, there were some who would've done well in the modern era, but they wouldnt have been able to feed on absurdly incompetent fellows, who wouldnt even make the zimbabwe XI today.
The fact that the game was easier and far less intensity is evident from the age those guys played till.
Retiring in the 40s was commonplace for Test and FC players back then, which is an incredible rarity today. That they could play well into their 40s, despite inferior nutrition and fitness levels show just how much easier the game was back then compared to modern day standards.
 
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archie mac

International Coach
C_C said:
Top spin isnt associated with metal rackets - the power you have while putting top spin is. Borg used to put top spin to his groundstrokes as well.
His(Federer's) big shots wouldnt be winners but his shot-making would be equal, if not superior in accuracy ( you forget how bleeding accurate these players are if they arnt going for a power shot) and his overall superior court fitness and methodical approach would finish off Tilden in 3 sets flat.
Not to mention, tennis players today are far more tactically aware than in the past.
All he'd have to do to ol Bill is to just make him run from corner to corner and Bill would fall flat in a jiffy.Very few tennis pros of the old think that they would stand a chance against the modern generation (Borg onward- when professionalism came into tennis) and Laver himself said that if he played the way he did, even with normalised equipments, he would've struggled to break into the top 10 in the 80s-onwards era.

As per Larwood- well, i dont doubt that he was fast. But fast doesnt mean quality. mohammed Sami is blisteringly fast but he is no great shakes.
And again, relative strength means nothing about absolute strength.
I am sure if i faced the best of the best of England's tennis players from 1800s, i would cream them all over the ballpark and same goes with cricket and Jack here.
Simply because their levels of fitness, technical proficiency and the challenges posed by the field was nowhere comparable.
Professionalism brings the field closer which it was not in any sport in the amatuer eras- sure, there were some who would've done well in the modern era, but they wouldnt have been able to feed on absurdly incompetent fellows, who wouldnt even make the zimbabwe XI today.
The fact that the game was easier and far less intensity is evident from the age those guys played till.
Retiring in the 40s was commonplace for Test and FC players back then, which is an incredible rarity today. That they could play well into their 40s, despite inferior nutrition and fitness levels show just how much easier the game was back then compared to modern day standards.
Okay, we are at the point where we do not agree (yet again) but to finish, if you have the chance read the Best of The Best by Charles Davis. It may change your mind, or confirm your stance. But in his greatest batsman ever he ranks

1 Bradman
2 RG Pollock
3 Headley
4 Sachin
5 Sobers
6 FS Jackson
7 Hobbs
17 Steve Waugh
 

C_C

International Captain
archie mac said:
Okay, we are at the point where we do not agree (yet again) but to finish, if you have the chance read the Best of The Best by Charles Davis. It may change your mind, or confirm your stance. But in his greatest batsman ever he ranks

1 Bradman
2 RG Pollock
3 Headley
4 Sachin
5 Sobers
6 FS Jackson
7 Hobbs
17 Steve Waugh
I dont think Pollock,Headley, Jackson or Hobbs should be in there.
I would instead have Viv, Lara, Gavaskar, Greg Chappell, Barrington and Dravid in that list
 

archie mac

International Coach
C_C said:
I dont think Pollock,Headley, Jackson or Hobbs should be in there.
I would instead have Viv, Lara, Gavaskar, Greg Chappell, Barrington and Dravid in that list

Not in top 20 Viv
9. Lara
Not in top 20 Gavaskar
16. Greg Chappell
8 Barrington
not in top 20 Dravid (the book was published in 2000)

He ranked the great cricketers
1 Bradman
2 Sobers
3 Imran
4 Hadlee
5 SF Barnes
6 Botham
7 Tendulkar
 

chaminda_00

Hall of Fame Member
Marshall had to be very unluckly here, one of the great bowlers of all time against one of the greatest batsmen and a decent all rounder to boot.

Sobers
 

C_C

International Captain
archie mac said:
Not in top 20 Viv
9. Lara
Not in top 20 Gavaskar
16. Greg Chappell
8 Barrington
not in top 20 Dravid (the book was published in 2000)

He ranked the great cricketers
1 Bradman
2 Sobers
3 Imran
4 Hadlee
5 SF Barnes
6 Botham
7 Tendulkar
I agree with most of that list, except Botham and Barnes will get the boot in my version and i would instead, include Keith Miller and Adam Gillchrist.
 

Buddhmaster

International Captain
I'll give Marshall a vote but there's no point really. Despite most of us knowing Bradman and Sobers shouldn't be in this, everyone still votes for him.
 

Jamee999

Hall of Fame Member
20-4 to Sobers

ROUND OF 16 ----- ----- BATTLE THREE

GA Headley (West Indies) (RHB,LB)



Imran Khan (Pakistan) (RHB, RF)

 

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