Batting Order

[age_master]

I was talking about Ponting's innings. He started very slowly in that knock...

Martyn faced just 21 balls in the last 10 overs, and scored 24 runs off them.

He saw Ponting was hitting the ball better, so pushed singles. That's hardly lacking ability.

119 runs in the last 10 overs of the WCF, Martyn scored 24(21) and ponting 78(39)

my point is, at the end of the innings you should be able to slog, martyn seems not to be able to do this, i cant recall many of his innings ever in which he has slogged, we had 8 wickets in hand and the batting to come included lehmann, symonds, hogg, bichel and lee - soem pretty big hits have come from those batsmen over the last few years, and Bevan is no mug with the bat either, so even if he did get out, there was plenty of cover, but he decided to push the ball around for singles..

now another Question, If NZ were the other team in the final, do you think martyn would have scored that many runs, ofcourse we can only guess, but Stephen Fleming, probably the best captain in the world at the moment, in 17 matches against NZ, martyn has made just 1 half century and 1 hundred. the area where he has particularly struggled against them is that of scoruing runs, stephen fleming seems to, quite easily, be able to cut off the main area's where he scores runs and than fdorce him to play shots that he doesn't usually play and he gets out. if you see his wagon wheels when he plays you will see quite destinct patterns, he doesn't actually play that many shots, which is fine for test cricket, but for ODI's you should be able to play more. look at the best players in the world, Tendulkar, Lara, Hayden, Ponting, Vaughan etc. they all play lots of shots and are therefore able to score mroe freely and are more easily able to go for a slog.

a great example of someone who i dont think has quite enough shots, but who i think is a quite a good good ODI batsman, is Trescothick, whemn he was out here last summer i noticed that he didn't actually play that many shots but he took more risks and slogged more, and hence did quite well a few times during the series, sure it didn't always come off but at least he had a go, more than i can say for martyn.

 

[Eclipse]

Martyn has plenty of shots the only problem is the only ones he seems capable of hitting sixes with are the lofted cover drive and flick of the pads.

And probably the slog sweep as well.

Other than that he cant generate all that much power with his other shots because of his bat grip and take away.

Nothing to do with his strength because he can hit the best sixes over cover I have ever seen.

 

[Mr. P]

good points, age_master, eclispe

 

[PY]

Martyn didn't need to pound the ball about in those last ten overs, as someone has already mentioned, he only needed to give the strike to Ponting who was going at a SR of 200 (:O). He didn't need to blister the ball around the ground, Australia were on 300-odd. If he had tried to blister the ball around he may have got out quicker and that would have hindered the batting because a new batsman would have to have batted himself in a bit whereas Martyn was in and could almost certainly rotate the strike around every ball.

You need a player like that in every team, not necessarily a defensive player but someone who finds it very easy to rotate the strike. That's why IMO England either need a new Graham Thorpe or the man himself.

 

[Mr. P]

fair enough

 

[Rik]

119 runs in the last 10 overs of the WCF, Martyn scored 24(21) and ponting 78(39)

my point is, at the end of the innings you should be able to slog, martyn seems not to be able to do this, i cant recall many of his innings ever in which he has slogged, we had 8 wickets in hand and the batting to come included lehmann, symonds, hogg, bichel and lee - soem pretty big hits have come from those batsmen over the last few years, and Bevan is no mug with the bat either, so even if he did get out, there was plenty of cover, but he decided to push the ball around for singles..

now another Question, If NZ were the other team in the final, do you think martyn would have scored that many runs, ofcourse we can only guess, but Stephen Fleming, probably the best captain in the world at the moment, in 17 matches against NZ, martyn has made just 1 half century and 1 hundred. the area where he has particularly struggled against them is that of scoruing runs, stephen fleming seems to, quite easily, be able to cut off the main area's where he scores runs and than fdorce him to play shots that he doesn't usually play and he gets out. if you see his wagon wheels when he plays you will see quite destinct patterns, he doesn't actually play that many shots, which is fine for test cricket, but for ODI's you should be able to play more. look at the best players in the world, Tendulkar, Lara, Hayden, Ponting, Vaughan etc. they all play lots of shots and are therefore able to score mroe freely and are more easily able to go for a slog.

a great example of someone who i dont think has quite enough shots, but who i think is a quite a good good ODI batsman, is Trescothick, whemn he was out here last summer i noticed that he didn't actually play that many shots but he took more risks and slogged more, and hence did quite well a few times during the series, sure it didn't always come off but at least he had a go, more than i can say for martyn.

You still end up winning the games. So it doesn't really matter does it? :P

If you think about it if Martyn had hit the ball like Ponting then Ponting probably would not have got the strike much near the end and could quite easily not have got his 100. Martyn managed to give him the strike back just about every ball. Also they probably would have got the same score in the end :P

If you can't have 2 players blazing around. You need one to give the strike back and also play the supporting role making sure there is someone there at the end, because Ponting could have quite easily mis-hit one and got out and then if Martyn went mental and got out there would be 2 new batsmen, as PY said, and they wouldn't have time to get their eyes in and could either quite easily get out or not be able to hit the ball as cleanly. Ends up as a lower score either way.

 

[luckyeddie]

You still end up winning the games. So it doesn't really matter does it? :P

Ah, partnerships.

That's the beauty of being old. Everything I say seems fresh and unique to me.

 

[age_master]

Martyn didn't need to pound the ball about in those last ten overs, as someone has already mentioned, he only needed to give the strike to Ponting who was going at a SR of 200 (:O). He didn't need to blister the ball around the ground, Australia were on 300-odd. If he had tried to blister the ball around he may have got out quicker and that would have hindered the batting because a new batsman would have to have batted himself in a bit whereas Martyn was in and could almost certainly rotate the strike around every ball.

You need a player like that in every team, not necessarily a defensive player but someone who finds it very easy to rotate the strike. That's why IMO England either need a new Graham Thorpe or the man himself.

well the likes of sdymonds, lehmann, bichel and lee dont usually waste much time gettiong settled


also, have you forgotten our no 1 strike rotator in M bevan


yes rik thats true but i think that we should always try to do the best possible, not just close to it

 

[Rik]

yes rik thats true but i think that we should always try to do the best possible, not just close to it

Stop making problems where there arn't any though. Slogging is not the be-all end-all requirement of the last 10 overs, it's finding the gaps.

 

[marc71178]

119 runs in the last 10 overs of the WCF, Martyn scored 24(21) and ponting 78(39)

my point is, at the end of the innings you should be able to slog,

Right, so Martyn sees that Ponting is seeing it like a football and smahing it all over the place, yet you still see fit to criticise him for pushing singles to give him as much of the strike?

:rolleyes:

 

[marc71178]

also, have you forgotten our no 1 strike rotator in M bevan

Hmm, had he p[layed that knock of Martyn's in the Final, you would have been salivating over how great he is...

 

[PY]

well the likes of sdymonds, lehmann, bichel and lee dont usually waste much time gettiong settled
also, have you forgotten our no 1 strike rotator in M bevan

Yes Brett Lee doesn't spend long getting settled because he walks back after 5 minutes

Martyn was in at the time, and he was knocking the ball around doing a good job of it. You can have more than one strike rotator in your team especially when you have thwackers like Hayden, Gilchrist, Ponting, Lehmann and Symonds. Not wanting to be patronising but a run a ball in 50 over game gets 300. Everyone is going to happy if their team posts 300.

 

[Mr. P]

original question?

 

[PY]

Answer = "if it ain't broke don't fix it" 8D

 

[Mr. P]

ya, i suspected as much

 

[age_master]

but a stitch in time saves nine...

 

[Mr. P]

yeah, whatever

 

[Eclipse]

Yes Brett Lee doesn't spend long getting settled because he walks back after 5 minutes

Thats sort of true but if he does manage to face a few balls without getting out he becomes lethal very quckly because he is souch a massive hitter.

I would take Brett Lee over many really good batsman in the slog overs if he gets himslef set because he can hit yorkers for six witch is bloody hard to do.

 

[Mr. P]

let ponting hit the yorkers for six...now andy bichel, thats a batsman!