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Ball-Tampering Hearing

honestbharani

Whatever it takes!!!
Scaly piscine said:
How do we know it's the right ball tho?
no, no, Scaly... They have obviously replaced the Oval ball even before the hearing so that Pakistan would get off scot free and Hair could be removed. It is all because the subcontinent are power hungry and will not rest until the English, Aussies and others are crushed under their feet.8-)
 

honestbharani

Whatever it takes!!!
Scaly piscine said:
The only people who saw the ball close up at the game are the two umpires and some of the Pakistan lot. It's hardly a stretch to think that the ICC (bent as a nine bob note to start with), PCB and the two umpires could have done a deal (Hair was after a settlement anyway and didn't look too unhappy from the pictures I've seen) and so switched the ball - that's all that was required because Boycott and the rest will give their honest opinion on a perfectly normal (and different) cricket ball. Anyone who denies that this could have happened is living in cloud ****oo land.
you obviously know them well since they will be your neighbours, those in that cloud ****oo land. :D
 

honestbharani

Whatever it takes!!!
Scaly piscine said:
So you seriously think the ICC are an honest bunch? They're just as dodgy as the likes of Waqar Younis, Shoaib Akthar and Shahid Afridi. The ICC stitched Hair up, there is history of ball tampering in the Pakistan national team and their recent coaching staff, the ICC has basically caved in under PCB pressure over the past month (and to anyone with a bit of muscle since I can remember) yet all of a sudden we're supposed to believe the ICC would stand up for truth and justice which might go against the PCB and the Pakistan captain. How many times in the past have ICC gone for path of least resistance regardless of morals?
so basically the ICC IS PAKISTAN, only under a diff. name? So now I understand why you hate the ICC just as much as u hate Pakistan...8-)
 

honestbharani

Whatever it takes!!!
marc71178 said:
It does seem a little strange that these marks are all concentrated around the same area of the ball - extremely improbable that the ball would've been damaged repeatedly in the same spot but nowhere else through natural wear and tear...
It feels stranger that those "one or two"marks would have actually helped the ball reverse swing like banana and would, in any way, benefit the bowling side.
 

honestbharani

Whatever it takes!!!
silentstriker said:
Yes. He is entiled to his opinion. Having a difference of opinion does not equate to bias.
To be honest, his recent years as a commentator has shown that he has got a significant bias for Australia and Aussies. It has been mentioned in a number of "best commentator" threads around here. What he was ten years ago is not important. But in the last 2 or 3 years, he has been a bit biased. Not saying he is a Bill Lawry or anything, but then the bias has been there. And as far as his answers to those questions are concerned, I think he has made up his mind on this issue long back. And it is just like a man to be concentrating on the "bringing the game into disrepute" issue when the bigger question of "ball tampering" was hanging around. He has purposefully not gone into the fact that Hair acted on very little evidence on a very serious charge and has instead concentrated on what happened afterwards, because that is where Pakistan were obviously guilty.
 

SJS

Hall of Fame Member
Matt79 said:
wow, 15 posts in a row! Must be some kind of record... :)
15 posts in a row from HB isnt a problem but seeing that dopey look on Freddie Flintoff's face, again and again, as one scrolls up and down the page is a bit disturbing. :)
 

Dasa

International Vice-Captain
Impressive posting streak there HB.
Saves me having to post my arguments again. :D
Matt79 said:
wow, 15 posts in a row! Must be some kind of record... :)
I suspect Marc might have beaten it somewhere.
 

social

Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
Anil said:
there is clearly no balance to the view of the "most respected man in world cricket"....he is completely biased against pakistan and has made up his mind that ball-tampering took place and that the enquiry was a white-wash....8-)
Aaaah, I stated that Benaud is "POSSIBLY" the most respected man in world cricket (sue me: he only reached the Final Four) and Benaud himself rejects the notion of it being a whitewash

"A It is not a whitewash. But the outcome is close to what I expected."

I assume you mis-read the article as I'd hate to think you were biased
 

GIMH

Norwood's on Fire
Fusion said:
Err wrong. Everyone is INNOCENT in the legal system until FOUND GUILTY. The burden of proving guilt lies with the accuser. So Pakistan were ALWAYS INNOCENT until someone proves their guilt. That did not happen. So the REMAIN INNOCENT. It would be a mockery of justice and highly unjust if all "not guilty" meant was "we don't have enough proof to convict you". Because going by that logic, all I have to do to muddy someone's reputation is accused them of something, whether it's true or not. Because obviously they'll never be found truly "innocent" (again based on your faulty logic).
Errr right. Stop shouting. Being found Not Guilty does not make you innocent. It doesn't make you guilty either, it simply means it can't be proven that you did it. No Court of law ever finds anybody innocent. Your argument of just accusing somebody doesn't work, because you could accuse me of any sort of crime, but without evidence I'd never be charged.

Pakistan were not ALWAYS INNOCENT. They had been accused, without proof, and were never likely to be found guilty for that reason, that doesn't mean they didn't do it.

When a Judge asks for a verdict, he says, "If it is beyond reasonable doubt" etc when asking if they will be coming up with a guilty verdict. Therefore, somebody can have committed a crime, but nobody knows for sure, there is reasonable doubt in the eyes of the jury but not enough to convict him, so they have no choice but to find him Not Guilty. This does not mean he is innocent, it merely means there is not enough evidence to find him guilty.

Once again, Not Guilty /= Innocent.
 

GIMH

Norwood's on Fire
In most countries, in a way, yes, but that's not what I'm disputing

My point is that being found not guilty is not being found innocent.
 

Lillian Thomson

Hall of Fame Member
GeraintIsMyHero said:
In most countries, in a way, yes, but that's not what I'm disputing

My point is that being found not guilty is not being found innocent.
It's a bit like the OJ Simpson trial. Everyone knows he did it, but in a court of law he was innocent until proven guilty and the prosecution failed to prove his guilt in the eyes of the jury. But then when it went to a civil court the judge was able to use his own judgement without the burden of proving "beyond reasonable doubt." In his original trial he was found "not guilty" but certainly wasn't considered "innocent".
 

GIMH

Norwood's on Fire
Lillian Thomson said:
It's a bit like the OJ Simpson trial. Everyone knows he did it, but in a court of law he was innocent until proven guilty and the prosecution failed to prove his guilt in the eyes of the jury. But then when it went to a civil court the judge was able to use his own judgement without the burden of proving "beyond reasonable doubt." In his original trial he was found "not guilty" but certainly wasn't considered "innocent".
Thankyou :)
 

nightprowler10

Global Moderator
Lillian Thomson said:
It's a bit like the OJ Simpson trial. Everyone knows he did it, but in a court of law he was innocent until proven guilty and the prosecution failed to prove his guilt in the eyes of the jury. But then when it went to a civil court the judge was able to use his own judgement without the burden of proving "beyond reasonable doubt." In his original trial he was found "not guilty" but certainly wasn't considered "innocent".
Bad comparison, but I see what you mean. Still, according to law, he is innocent.
 

Lillian Thomson

Hall of Fame Member
nightprowler10 said:
Bad comparison, but I see what you mean. Still, according to law, he is innocent.
I wasn't making any comparison between the OJ Simpson and Pakistan cases. I was just trying to put some logic on the subject of being innocent in eyes of the law not meaning that you didn't commit the crime.
 

GIMH

Norwood's on Fire
nightprowler10 said:
Bad comparison, but I see what you mean. Still, according to law, he is innocent.
No, according to law he is "Not Guilty." There's a goddamn difference
 

nightprowler10

Global Moderator
GeraintIsMyHero said:
No, according to law he is "Not Guilty." There's a goddamn difference
The law states "innocent until proven guilty". If you're not proven guilty, you are innocent in the eyes of the law. How much simpler could it possibly get.

It doesn't matter if people think or know OJ is guilty, he is still innocent in the eyes of the law.
 

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