Legglancer
State Regular
Stupid simplistic statement !open365 said:The most reasonable thing to do would have been for the Pakistanis to appear on the field of play when they were supposed to.
Stupid simplistic statement !open365 said:The most reasonable thing to do would have been for the Pakistanis to appear on the field of play when they were supposed to.
I had a hunch that people's opinions wouldn't change regarding the result of the hearing.Fusion said:It shocks me in a sense that I expected people to focus on Pakistan refusing to come out more so than defending Hair's actions. IMO, after this hearing it's painfully obvious that Hair's actions were wrong. He accused Pakistan of cheating based on a guess, not evidence. Plenty of people have disputed his judgment on the tampering of the ball. He then proceeded to act in an obnoxious way and only escalated the tense situation. So yeah, I did not expect people to still come to his defense so vigorously, as if he was/is incapable of being wrong and making mistakes!
Here's a more "reasonable" thought process than yours:open365 said:The most reasonable thing to do would have been for the Pakistanis to appear on the field of play when they were supposed to.
In The Independent, Angus Fraser reveals that he has actually seen the ball at the heart of the whole row:
The state of the ball surprised me. It was protected in bubble wrap and treated as though it was part of a murder investigation. My first impression was that there was not a great deal wrong with it. I expected there to be more. This was not a ball that was about to reverse swing - the phenomenon created by the type of ball-tampering the Pakistan side had been accused of - extravagantly. The seam and quarter seam were in as good a condition as you would expect from a ball that was 56 overs old. They had definitely not been tampered with. There was a contrast between the two sides of the ball, as there always is. This is because one side has sweat and spit put on to it and is polished, while the other is left alone. The darker side is the one that has been polished and it generally looks tidier, while the other side always appears rougher.
In The Daily Telegraph, Simon Hughes, who was one of the expert witnesses called to the hearing, said the conclusion was:
A victory for common sense, an entity that had been in short supply at that same venue a month earlier … it emerged during the hearing that that afternoon was one of allegation, obfuscation, provocation and indignation resulting in the forfeiture of a Test match. There was chaos behind the scenes in the pavilion after tea. At the very moment officials were indulging in desperate brinkmanship with the enraged Pakistanis, the on-field umpires were independently removing the bails to declare the match awarded to England. It is clear that, with a bit of discretion here and a deep breath there, this fiasco would never have come about.
In a column in the same paper which will infuriate those who back Pakistan’s indignation, Derek Pringle offers a different take on why Hair was appointed to so many Pakistan matches:
According to one umpiring source, he has warned them about suspected malpractice over the ball eight times in that period [four Test series in 14 months], so the Oval, despite the sketchy evidence, may have been a last straw. Perhaps the question the PCB need to ask themselves is why Hair, a stubborn but principled man, was given so many of their Tests to stand in? Could it have been that the ICC wanted the team's wilder excesses to be placed in check by an umpire bold enough to take on the players?
© The Guardian
In The Guardian, Omar Waraich reveals that the evidence of Geoff Boycott played a key part in the outcome:
Boycott in particular delivered a veritable tour de force. At one point, he took the infamous match ball in his hand, held it up and said: "That's a good ball, not just a playable ball. Boycott also took exception to the idea that an accusation of cheating should be tolerated. "If me or any of my friends were ever called a cheat," he told the hearing, the accuser would be "decked with a bunch of fives".
Well that's clearly because they're all afraid of the big bad PCB. It has nothing to do with the fact that Hair was the one at fault here! Politics man!silentstriker said:Most English papers seem to be pro-Pakistan:
social said:
Any first year lawyer could pull these arguments to pieces so it'll be interesting to see whether Hair appeals.
Sanz said:Okay - Who read last 5 posts ?
noticed that you didn't specify what parts of these arguments can be "pulled to pieces"....easy enough to make expansive bullcrap remarks....social said:Quote:
Originally Posted by Cricinfo
"If, as the umpires told us, the ball was in an acceptable condition after the 52nd over, it is, in my view, highly unlikely that the condition of the ball could have been changed so substantially thereafter by human action within a short period of play without some suspicious conduct by a fielder being noticed by an umpire, television camera, or third party."
He then virtually rejects the umpires' decision saying the "the physical state of the ball did not justify a conclusion that a fielder had altered its condition," and that he "would have expected the umpires to draw Mr ul-Haq's attention to the marks and to tell him that they intended to keep a close eye on the ball after each over."
The subtext of the verdict can be read as thus: Hair acted on a mere suspicion; he acted in haste (his fellow umpire wanted to wait); he could have avoided the crisis had he chosen the diplomatic route; and since there was the equal possibility of the ball being damaged naturally, the umpires were wrong in penalising Pakistan. Madugalle makes it a point to say it was not his case that the umpires were "perverse" or had "acted in bad faith", but it is a damning judgment nevertheless.
Any first year lawyer could pull these arguments to pieces so it'll be interesting to see whether Hair appeals.
How was that stupid?Legglancer said:Stupid simplistic statement !
I didSanz said:Okay - Who read last 5 posts ?
Pakistan who have just been spitefully wrongly charged with Cheating were willing to resume play as were England ..... Malcom Speed And Proctor was advising that play should resume .... But HRM Hair did not feel like starting play as it would hurt his BIG EGO .....open365 said:How was that stupid?
I don't see what else Hair should have done in the situation, he told them he'd be waiting to play or w/e and then went onto the field, and they never came down, i don't know about you, but that constitutes a forfeited match imo.
open365 said:How was that stupid?
I don't see what else Hair should have done in the situation, he told them he'd be waiting to play or w/e and then went onto the field, and they never came down, i don't know about you, but that constitutes a forfeited match imo.