Australian Thread

[Mister Wright]

They aren't, lets see:

Lets say Warne wasn't banned this would have been Australia 2003 World Cup XI:

Gilchrist
Hayden
Ponting
Martyn
Lehmann
Bevan
Symonds
Warne
Lee
Gillespie
McGrath

Based on performances in the coming season this may be Australia's 2007 XI:

Jaques
Gilchrist
Ponting
Symonds
Watson
Clarke
Hussey
Hogg
Lee
Bracken
McGrath

Not much of a gap 2003 has a slight edge probably but looking at what other sides will take to the world cup if that poosible 2007 XI plays to potential Ricky Ponting definately will be lifting the world cup on April 28th...

There's no slight advantage. 2003 was a much better side than anything we'll produce in 2007.

 

[aussie]

probably but its still going to be stronger than most sides.

 

[Mister Wright]

That may be true, but the strongest side doesn't always win. Just look at Australia's last tour to England.

 

[FaaipDeOiad]

Can't believe people were suggesting Clarke's place in the ODI side is in question. His record in the short form is nothing short of brilliant. The only batsmen in the world with higher ODI averages than Clarke are Hussey, Dhoni, Pietersen and Sarwan, three of which haven't played as many games as him. And that doesn't take into account his ground fielding, which is world class.

He's not flawless of course, and has the odd bad run, but Martyn being dropped is a million times more likely.

 

[Mister Wright]

Can't believe people were suggesting Clarke's place in the ODI side is in question. His record in the short form is nothing short of brilliant. The only batsmen in the world with higher ODI averages than Clarke are Hussey, Dhoni, Pietersen and Sarwan, three of which haven't played as many games as him. And that doesn't take into account his ground fielding, which is world class.

He's not flawless of course, and has the odd bad run, but Martyn being dropped is a million times more likely.

Indeed. Clarke is an excellent one day batsman. Has an uncanny ability to find the gaps is very quick between the wickets and as you say he is a very fine fieldsman. I think his major flaw in the one day game is his ability to resurrect an Australian innings after early wickets have fallen, it happened a few times in South Africa when we lost early wickets he often still went in and played his shots when a more cuatious approach would have been a better way to go about it, which is one reason I think he should be higher up the batting order in one dayers, he should be given maximum overs with the field up.

 

[aussie]

I think his major flaw in the one day game is his ability to resurrect an Australian innings after early wickets have fallen, it happened a few times in South Africa when we lost early wickets he often still went in and played his shots when a more cuatious approach would have been a better way to go about it, which is one reason I think he should be higher up the batting order in one dayers, he should be given maximum overs with the field up.

well to be fair to Clarke here, since Australia won the 99 world the phylosophy in the ODI team under Waugh or Ponting has been to attack even when early wickets are lost & over the last 7 years it has been highly successfull. On him going up the order he could in the near future but for the world cup i would want him to be coming in at #6.

 

[FaaipDeOiad]

Indeed. Clarke is an excellent one day batsman. Has an uncanny ability to find the gaps is very quick between the wickets and as you say he is a very fine fieldsman. I think his major flaw in the one day game is his ability to resurrect an Australian innings after early wickets have fallen, it happened a few times in South Africa when we lost early wickets he often still went in and played his shots when a more cuatious approach would have been a better way to go about it, which is one reason I think he should be higher up the batting order in one dayers, he should be given maximum overs with the field up.

I think Clarke could bat just about anywhere really, in one dayers, but you could argue that in the top order he might be exposed against the new ball at times. He's top class down the order because he's quite capable of scoring from his first delivery, much like Hussey. I think the reason he is kept there is because the guys who are above 6 like Martyn and Symonds rely a bit more on that time to play themselves in, while Clarke is quite capable of churning out the 30* (20) scores that are crucial down the order.

However, once Gilchrist is gone, if Katich, Jaques and Cosgrove don't fill the opening spots well enough, he could certainly go to the top of the order and be successful, I think.

And incidentally, he also helped rescue Australia once in South Africa, so it wasn't all bad in that regard.

 

[age_master]

yeah id keep Clarke down the order 1 below Symonds and with Hussey 1 below him, between the 3 of them the chances of success for at least 1 are very high as has been proven over the last few years - all 3 of them bat well with one another and are very quick between the wickets so they can each vary the way that they bat to accomodate the game situation. In terms of post world cup openers i reakon Jaques and Cosgrove are a pretty likely combo.

 

[aussie]

In terms of post world cup openers i reakon Jaques and Cosgrove are a pretty likely combo.

Yea they look like another destructive left-handed combination in the making.

 

[FaaipDeOiad]

yeah id keep Clarke down the order 1 below Symonds and with Hussey 1 below him, between the 3 of them the chances of success for at least 1 are very high as has been proven over the last few years - all 3 of them bat well with one another and are very quick between the wickets so they can each vary the way that they bat to accomodate the game situation. In terms of post world cup openers i reakon Jaques and Cosgrove are a pretty likely combo.

If Cosgrove's fitness and Jaques' fielding are up to scratch, certainly. I think you'll find that the selectors will be hesitant to pick both of them though, because of the aformentioned areas of concern, and because they lack experience.

Say for instance Gilchrist retires after the WC, Katich will most likely still be opening and perhaps Jaques will come in with him, but Clarke may also be a shot with everyone else moving up and Watson at 7, or something like that. Cosgrove or Jaques may also be put in at 4, if Martyn gets dropped before Gilchrist retires, or one of them is opening with Katich and Martyn is no longer in the side.

I'd say it'll be a while before they regularly open together.

 

[aussie]

Reshuffled 15-man squad

Well based on what we have seen in the current tri-series in Malaysia, its obvious that final outlook of the world cup squad & starting XI is far from certain. For now this is what the squad may look like:

1. Ponting
2. Gilchrist
3. Haddin
4. Jaques/Hayden/Katich
5. Cosgrove
6. Clarke
7. Hussey
8. Watson
9. Symonds
10. Hogg
11. Lee
12. McGrath
13. Johnson/Cullen
14. Bracken
15. Clark

The biggest issue that will run through the remainding ODI's until the world cup starts is who partners Gilchrist at the top. Katich has not stamped his authority on the spot since given the full-time job in the ICC Super series, Jaques has looked impressive in the few games he has played while Hayden has showed that he still can cut in in ODI's.

Personally i would like it to be Jaques partnering Gilly at the top come the world cup since he is an obvious future opener & grooming him in the ODI team will be to Australia's benefit in the future, Hayden for me should just concentrate on playing test since i see him playing as an opener up to age 40. Thus Katich would unfortunately miss out, but maybe he may still have hope of a test call up in the future

Another slight issue is whether to pick two spinners, at first i had no problems with it, but with the emergence of Johnson (who if he keeps it up could displace Bracken in the starting XI by the world cup) i don't think there is a need for Cullen in a final squad of 15. Picking 5 pacemen of different qualities gives the bowling attack a really strong look.

Thirdly the departure of Martyn, we all would agree that his time in the ODI team is over unfortunately, it will be interesting to see how long before the selectors relinquish him from ODI duty.

So for me by the time the world cup is around this would be my best XI:

Gilchrist
Jaques
Ponting
Watson
Symonds
Clarke
Hussey
Hogg
Lee
Johnson/Bracken - depending on condtions
McGrath

Once they play to potential it will be 3 world cups in a row i'm sure

 

[Pratters]

Personally i would like it to be Jaques partnering Gilly at the top come the world cup since he is an obvious future opener & grooming him in the ODI team will be to Australia's benefit in the future, Hayden for me should just concentrate on playing test since i see him playing as an opener up to age 40. Thus Katich would unfortunately miss out, but maybe he may still have hope of a test call up in the future

1) It will be a shocker for me to see Hayden playing till the age of 40.
2) You don't pick a player in a world cup first XI to groom him for the future. You pick the best possible combination and whether it is Hayden or Jaques will depend on who the selectors think will deliver and not keeping the future in mind.

 

[Xuhaib]

Yea they look like another destructive left-handed combination in the making.

At the moment Cosgrove only looks destructive on the dinner table.

 

[adharcric]

Hayden will open unless Katich pulls off something remarkable in India. As for the third seamer's spot, I'll take Johnson over Bracken.

 

[aussie]

1) It will be a shocker for me to see Hayden playing till the age of 40.

Maybe not exaclty 40, but very close to it, he is a very fit bloke & has a great hunger to to score runs for Australia & i can really see him being Australia's # 1 opener in test even at an old age. At minimum i can see him coming back to England in 2009.

2) You don't pick a player in a world cup first XI to groom him for the future. You pick the
best possible combination and whether it is Hayden or Jaques will depend on who the selectors think will deliver and not keeping the future in mind.

True, age is just a number yes & once you can still perform to the required standard you deserved to be picked, so yes if Hayden keeps going well between now & the chappell-hadlee series he will be opening with Gilchrist. I just would rather if Jaques can do as well & open instead admittedly.

 

[Mister Wright]

TBH Jaques really hasn't shown that much in his ODI performances so far. He had a great debut but since then his lack of footwork has been shown up, and he hasn't adjusted as well as I thought he would to international cricket, which is surprising because he looks vastly superior to most Australian domestic batsman. Time will tell, but not sure he'll be ready for the WC07.

 

[aussie]

Well i'm not sure about that since his superb 90 odd on debut @ the SCG, in the Cape town carnage with the way Ntini was bowling many batsmen would have gotten out, in the 1st game of the DLF cup he got a ball that kept very low from Edwards & vs the Indian he was beating a bit early but started to look good before he played a wild swipe.

Plus in his two test to date he has looked good.

For me i just think he needs an extended run, his form for NSW, Australia A & over here in CC in recent times has been too good for him not to convert on the international stage. But time will tell as you say.

 

[FaaipDeOiad]

Hayden will open unless Katich pulls off something remarkable in India. As for the third seamer's spot, I'll take Johnson over Bracken.

Bit early for that just yet. Bracken's record in ODIs is remarkably good, with an average of 21 and an economy rate of 4.36. He's a fine bowler and compliments McGrath and Lee very nicely.

Johnson should be in the side rotation for ODIs along with Clark, and he may overtake Bracken based on future performances, but you certainly couldn't put him in front yet. If it came down to a WC final against Pakistan or whoever and the need for three reliable seam bowlers who you could trust to threaten for wickets and keep it pretty tight, it'd still be McGrath, Lee and Bracken for me.

 

[adharcric]

Bit early for that just yet. Bracken's record in ODIs is remarkably good, with an average of 21 and an economy rate of 4.36. He's a fine bowler and compliments McGrath and Lee very nicely.

Johnson should be in the side rotation for ODIs along with Clark, and he may overtake Bracken based on future performances, but you certainly couldn't put him in front yet. If it came down to a WC final against Pakistan or whoever and the need for three reliable seam bowlers who you could trust to threaten for wickets and keep it pretty tight, it'd still be McGrath, Lee and Bracken for me.

Bracken is certainly the choice at the moment, but I don't think he'll be the clear choice for long. For one, Bracken's suited to bowling with the new ball, which he won't get to do with McGrath and Lee around. It's a very good problem to have when you HAVE to keep two out of Bracken, Clark (ok he's not that great) and Johnson out.

 

[aussie]

Watson opening

What do you think about this?, looking at Katich i wont say drop him but its obvious that if he keeps batting like that he wont last until the world cup.

Watson may not be a natural like Hayden & Jaques but he has looked fairly solid opening during the DLF cup so i think he is a strong candidate there. Especially with Martyn also showing today that even though his form since the ashes hasn't been as if was between the last WC to the end of the ashes that made him one of the best ODI batsmen in the world, he still can contribute.