Australian Doom and Gloom Thread

[TheJediBrah]

T20Is can still be entertaining. Kind of pointless when none of your best players even turn up though

 

[Nintendo]

Add my vote to this side of the opinion. I have no problem with T20Is being a thing, because revenue, but you hang your hat on ODIs and Tests as an international coach (unless we get to the point, which we should, of dedicated T20I/franchise coaches).

Langer is a sub-par coach because Australia bombed out of the World Cup, lost to India B at home and a number of players have gone backwards under his 'guidance'. Strange selections in T20Is and the increasing displeasure (if it is to be believed, and it's easy to do so) coming out of the changing room adds to that as well. He's got longer rope than Mickey Arthur because of who he is, and more than Darren Lehmann because there hasn't been an out and out scandal.

To me, if you are a former Test batsman of some note, if you're any chop as a coach that area of the game should be progressing. It's regressing.

Will be interesting as to whether a poor result in the T20 World Cup sees him out on his arse, or whether in the more likely scenario, he survives and then gets a free ride through a home Ashes series against a mud England side. He'd have to be pretty intense and have guys completely give up on him to not get through past that.

What players have "regressed" under langer as head coach? Green got a call up to the odi/test squad for the first time last summer, and straight after coming back posted scores of 200*, 169*, 144 in a list A and 254, was in by far and away the best form of his life, and got progressively better throughout the series. Marnus also grew tons under langer, warner is still shite away and good at home, smith had a beast of an ashes and a bad year, but that was more down to either having no time to bat or mental stuff in the india series, he was in good form and just ****ing with himself until the 3rd test. All the other guys we've called up have been 40> average shield bats who where never going to be superstars at test level or haven't played enough to get a gauge (pucovski)

Obviously a ton of guys regressed under him as batting coach when he had that role, but fail to see how that same tag can be put on him as head coach. Obviously he deserves to go though, guys a hothead who most of the dressing room hate, and who lead a full strength aussie side to get thrashed in the wc semi's, slapped around by an indian b side at home, and threw away our first chance to win an away ashes in 20 years.

 

[Red_Ink_Squid]

alright whatever you think about langer though, people who didn't think he should be sacked before now thinking so on the back of mickey mouse t20 series are pagliacci grandi, for sure. for spikey and co who wanted him sacked prior, yeah, fair play, but thinking that t20is matter says more about those that want langer sacked after them than it does about him

I agree with you that the result of the recent T20 series shouldn't be significant to Langer's tenure at all. But it seems the focus hasn't been on the result so much as Langer's personality setting him increasingly at odds with the players and other professionals. That's the sort of thing that a coach can be judged on regardless of whether it occurs in a T20 series or not.

 

[honestbharani]

to consistently be where they should be, which is on top of the world

I honestly hope no one feels that entitled..

 

[Flem274*]

There's a lot outside of Langer's control. The national team head coach being the most important asset to the health of the national game is a myth. Both WTC finalists had pretty so - so at best head coaches. Langer can't be blamed for having a pool of mostly HTB first class journeymen to pick batsmen from. That's a problem with the Australian system.

He is accountable for behaving like a meme though. I haven't watched the doco but I've followed the articles over time and he sounds exhausting to be around. The head coach doesn't need to be a technical guru, but he does need to at the very least be a steady hand, someone who can make clear what we're doing like an adult and gel with the captain. If you guys can't get Ponting or Gillespie then honestly the best option is probably a very boring domestic coach signing who won't grab headlines but will do all the boring stuff well.

Also I can't remember the last time I saw you guys posting about an Australia A tour to somewhere it swings or spins. A fair few home games though. Australia A going on a few tours might provide a few batsmen.

 

[Nintendo]

There's a lot outside of Langer's control. The national team head coach being the most important asset to the health of the national game is a myth. Both WTC finalists had pretty so - so at best head coaches. Langer can't be blamed for having a pool of mostly HTB first class journeymen to pick batsmen from. That's a problem with the Australian system.

He is accountable for behaving like a meme though. I haven't watched the doco but I've followed the articles over time and he sounds exhausting to be around. The head coach doesn't need to be a technical guru, but he does need to at the very least be a steady hand, someone who can make clear what we're doing like an adult and gel with the captain. If you guys can't get Ponting or Gillespie then honestly the best option is probably a very boring domestic coach signing who won't grab headlines but will do all the boring stuff well.

Also I can't remember the last time I saw you guys posting about an Australia A tour to somewhere it swings or spins. A fair few home games though. Australia A going on a few tours might provide a few batsmen.

Yeah our A system is a bit shite, only do A matches when were touring other places, last time our A guys got any overseas exposure was the last ashes p sure.

 

[Jack1]

That poll is funny

 

[SteveNZ]

I honestly hope no one feels that entitled..

I'm not Australian, incidentally. But if I had Cummins, Starc, Hazelwood, Lyon, Smith and Marnus in my side, I'd feel like I only need to cobble together 1-2 more reasonably consistent cricketers to be so.

 

[SteveNZ]

What players have "regressed" under langer as head coach? Green got a call up to the odi/test squad for the first time last summer, and straight after coming back posted scores of 200*, 169*, 144 in a list A and 254, was in by far and away the best form of his life, and got progressively better throughout the series. Marnus also grew tons under langer, warner is still ****e away and good at home, smith had a beast of an ashes and a bad year, but that was more down to either having no time to bat or mental stuff in the india series, he was in good form and just ****ing with himself until the 3rd test. All the other guys we've called up have been 40> average shield bats who where never going to be superstars at test level or haven't played enough to get a gauge (pucovski)

Obviously a ton of guys regressed under him as batting coach when he had that role, but fail to see how that same tag can be put on him as head coach. Obviously he deserves to go though, guys a hothead who most of the dressing room hate, and who lead a full strength aussie side to get thrashed in the wc semi's, slapped around by an indian b side at home, and threw away our first chance to win an away ashes in 20 years.

Regressed potentially the wrong word, but only Marnus could be claimed to be someone who has been introduced and become Test class, or really become better at all (ignoring Smith, because he couldn't get much better). Maybe Green will get there, maybe Pucovski will.

I guess I look at someone like Henry Nicholls, who was a >40 average FC bat too and now has seven tons (and high quality ones at that) at almost 43. BJ Watling would be the same if he didn't suck in non-important situations. Tom Latham, too. Those guys have clearly benefitted from a great environment. Can't see similar with Australia.

 

[BoyBrumby]

There's a lot outside of Langer's control. The national team head coach being the most important asset to the health of the national game is a myth. Both WTC finalists had pretty so - so at best head coaches. Langer can't be blamed for having a pool of mostly HTB first class journeymen to pick batsmen from. That's a problem with the Australian system.

He is accountable for behaving like a meme though. I haven't watched the doco but I've followed the articles over time and he sounds exhausting to be around. The head coach doesn't need to be a technical guru, but he does need to at the very least be a steady hand, someone who can make clear what we're doing like an adult and gel with the captain. If you guys can't get Ponting or Gillespie then honestly the best option is probably a very boring domestic coach signing who won't grab headlines but will do all the boring stuff well.

Also I can't remember the last time I saw you guys posting about an Australia A tour to somewhere it swings or spins. A fair few home games though. Australia A going on a few tours might provide a few batsmen.

My main frame of reference is The Test, but some of the stuff that is under his control made me wince watching it.

Sitting the whole squad down the day after the Headingley test to watch the entirety of Stokes's and Leach's stand was very, ah, interesting management. Paine, obviously one of nature's good guys, sounded pretty close to rancid.

Langer seems to either not care or have no awareness of how he's perceived by others. If it's the former his lack of embarrassment is almost commendable, actually. I mean I can feel my arse twitching at the mere thought of the "Elite Honesty" gubbins, so cringe was it, but he probably sees it as part of the pro-ject, as he insists on pronouncing it.

 

[honestbharani]

I'm not Australian, incidentally. But if I had Cummins, Starc, Hazelwood, Lyon, Smith and Marnus in my side, I'd feel like I only need to cobble together 1-2 more reasonably consistent cricketers to be so.

Think that is overrating Lyon for sure and even Starc a little bit. And I am as big a fan of Starc and Marnus here as anyone.

 

[Nintendo]

Regressed potentially the wrong word, but only Marnus could be claimed to be someone who has been introduced and become Test class, or really become better at all (ignoring Smith, because he couldn't get much better). Maybe Green will get there, maybe Pucovski will.

I guess I look at someone like Henry Nicholls, who was a >40 average FC bat too and now has seven tons (and high quality ones at that) at almost 43. BJ Watling would be the same if he didn't suck in non-important situations. Tom Latham, too. Those guys have clearly benefitted from a great environment. Can't see similar with Australia.

When was the last time Nicholls made a high quality ton though? I just remember him meeting his way to 2 big 100's off drop catches in the home summer after being shite for ages and having his average drop to >40.

But yeah your right, no players have really prospered, even marnus was a combination of talent, hard work and advice from his Glamorgan coach. Langer really didn't have much to do with that.

 

[SteveNZ]

When was the last time Nicholls made a high quality ton though? I just remember him meeting his way to 2 big 100's off drop catches in the home summer after being ****e for ages and having his average drop to >40.

But yeah your right, no players have really prospered, even marnus was a combination of talent, hard work and advice from his Glamorgan coach. Langer really didn't have much to do with that.

That's a fair point on Nicholls. I've never seen a batsman receive more luck than him last summer, when his place was starting to be questioned as Conway and Young demanded spots.

 

[Nintendo]

That's a fair point on Nicholls. I've never seen a batsman receive more luck than him last summer, when his place was starting to be questioned as Conway and Young demanded spots.

Marnus last summer would probably give him a run for his money, can't remember how many times he got dropped but it was between 5-10 times over the period of the series.

 

[Shady Slim]

T20Is can still be entertaining. Kind of pointless when none of your best players even turn up though

oh i don't disagree, it's more a case of the other formats are where the bread's buttered

i'd trade getting bowled out for 12 every match at the t20 wc for getting past ashwin's defenses in melbourne last summer every day of the week and twice on sundays lol

 

[Shady Slim]

There's a lot outside of Langer's control. The national team head coach being the most important asset to the health of the national game is a myth. Both WTC finalists had pretty so - so at best head coaches. Langer can't be blamed for having a pool of mostly HTB first class journeymen to pick batsmen from. That's a problem with the Australian system.

He is accountable for behaving like a meme though. I haven't watched the doco but I've followed the articles over time and he sounds exhausting to be around. The head coach doesn't need to be a technical guru, but he does need to at the very least be a steady hand, someone who can make clear what we're doing like an adult and gel with the captain. If you guys can't get Ponting or Gillespie then honestly the best option is probably a very boring domestic coach signing who won't grab headlines but will do all the boring stuff well.

Also I can't remember the last time I saw you guys posting about an Australia A tour to somewhere it swings or spins. A fair few home games though. Australia A going on a few tours might provide a few batsmen.

uncomfortable agreeing with Capital Letters Flem but here we are

 

[Prince EWS]

oh i don't disagree, it's more a case of the other formats are where the bread's buttered

i'd trade getting bowled out for 12 every match at the t20 wc for getting past ashwin's defenses in melbourne last summer every day of the week and twice on sundays lol

Agree as long as Dan Christian can contribute the best 9 of all time.

 

[Spikey]

The one thing I would say is that Langer's coaching success was almost entirely around white ball cricket, in particular T20, and an actual good showing at a T20 WC has been a want from CA for a while now

 

[Line and Length]

To what extent are the anti-Langer sentiments expressed on CW because of this?

"Langer is a devout Catholic, as was his Australian opening batsman partner Matthew Hayden. Politically, he is conservative, an admirer of former Liberal Australian Prime Minister John Howard, and considered running for office as a member of the Liberal Party of Australia."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Justin_Langer

 

[RossTaylorsBox]

Probably nil, since Glenn McGrath is admired by almost everyone on here.