Australian Cricket’s Governance/Development/Expectations/Future

[Backlash]

Continued from the last 20 odd posts from the Ashes 1st Test Thread.

What exactly can they do against AFL, though? They don't have the money or the space to evenly match what the AFL can offer a young rising star.

That's been the way since they all became professional. There's 15-20 well paid pro cricketing spots available in Australia, and hundreds of well paid footy spots across the codes.

So basically the war is lost and I should just accept what we have now and just hope things will get a little better here and there?

Things have changed that's for sure but Cricket Australia haven't been unable to keep up with their development IMO. If the current bunch of batsmen in this country who have been developed over the last 10 years have honestly been the best we can do then we're in big trouble.

I think cricket has a far better chance competing against AFL in this country than it does competing against football in England.

And honestly, I'm sure there are kids that are that naturally talented that may be privileged to choose between a career in either but that would have to be a rarity. I'm sure in most cases it would end up being like Shane Warne who loved AFL and Cricket but was supremely talented in one and just handy in the other.

If that was the case then it sure haven't shown it. England has been able to develop better all around talent than Australia in the last 10 years IMO. Like I said the development by Cricket Australia hasn't been up to scratch of late. They'd want to do something about it pretty soon too.

this is veering back into dangerous territory for backlash.

Anyway, consider this. Kane Williamson is the brightest young talent NZ has, by a long shot. I wouldn't put Usman Khawaja below him in terms of potential.

Similarly, WI has...Bravo?

South Africa has? I don't even know, Duminy can't be considered young anymore.

England has Root.

India has Pujara and Kohli.

Of these, only Pujara and Kohli have really established themselves.

Warner, Khawaja, Hughes have just as much potential as any young batsmen around the world.

If that is the case then that's a pretty poor reflection on the standard of World Cricket as a whole IMO.

Out of all the talented yungsters we have had, who has chosen cricket over footy?

that Keefe kid who captaind the U19 squad, and he hasn't come on at all.

Marsh.

Yes, M.Marsh and Keath are the last two AFL prospects who went down the Cricket path instead. Keath was the higher rated AFL prospect out of the two. Marsh's family history would have played a big part in his choice. That said neither has come along yet. Not a good look for anyone else thinking of doing the same sporting career move. There have been a few who went to Cricket first but have now changed back to give AFL a shot.

 

[Flem274*]

cool

 

[HeathDavisSpeed]

I personally think you can't expect to continually churn out the sort of players you did in the late 90s. Seriously, that was one of the best teams of all time, and Australia could probably have fielded a team which would have been 2nd best in the world at the time - or at least damn close to it. I honestly don't think it's panic stations, but Australia isn't a huge country and guys like Ponting, Gilchrist, Warne and McGrath are most likely once in a generation type players.

Basically, I disagree that it's time to press the panic button. You're just used to watching one of the greatest teams to ever take the field and even in AFL and NRL didn't exist, you cannot expect to constantly churn out all time great players.

 

[Maximas]

Well said Heath, I have to agree somewhat with that Hendrix quote, good young test quality batsmen are becoming a rarity, it's probably got something to do with t20 and particularly the rise of ODI and List A cricket. Good players like Compton, Khawaja, Darren Bravo and Hughes are really struggling to perform well on the international stage. The SC is the only place I've seen consistent talent coming through in terms of batting, Thirramanne, Chandimal, Kohli, Pujara, Azher Ali and Asad Shafiq are some of the only young batsmen who I can think of who have really established themselves in their national sides, and even then they are somewhat unproven outside the SC. This is a worrying trend, but Backlash I reckon you can stop thinking this is just an Australian problem IMO.

 

[sphynx]

It's such a cyclical thing.

The Australian depth in the 90's was absolutely insane, and will never be matched again imo, the Australia A side would of been #2 in the world.

In saying that, the Australian underage teams have done well over the last few years, and the senior side is starting to reap the benefits.

Whilst the batting is pretty bare, the fast bowling will eclipse even the 90's imo, golden era incoming for the Australian side in terms of quicks

They might not produce another McGrath, but I think they will produce up to 4 or so better than Gillespie/Lee which would be a fair effort.

Cummins, Pattinson, Starc, Bird, Hazlewood, Sandou, Faulkner and Richardson is a fair group of young quicks to have........... Cummins has the most potential in that lot, which is saying something considering Pattinson and Starc are two of the best young bowlers in the world.

 

[Flem274*]

Khawaja isn't even that young anymore. He's 26, so he isn't far away from entering his best years as a batsman. He has the technique of Daniel Flynn but without the self restraint to leave full balls outside off. We've seen how far the Flynnwaja technique got Flynn, so Khawaja either has to make it work somehow or revamp himself now so he has time to fix stuff up and not get consigned to the "over 30, must be terrible" scrap heap selectors seem fond of.

We'll see, but I think Australia should be more hopeful about Hughes and Smith. They might be far from perfect technically (especially Smith) but they've shown they're willing to try and make something of themselves. You've got to admire that.

Warner has the basic set up to be a very good opener as well, and he's scored some ****ing awesome tons, but he appears to be trying his best to throw it all away. I'd back him to come good though. When he was written off as a 20/20 slogger he knuckled down and proved the naysayers wrong in a domestic competition that is very bowler friendly.

 

[Daemon]

Khawaja's been doing pretty well in the same competition..

 

[Maximas]

I'm not judging uzi until he bats today, but his SS form has justified his selection as well as his County experience last year, he has looked unfazed at international level in the past, and I think he can achieve more than the likes of Daniel Flynn thankyou very much Flem!

 

[Flem274*]

He's looked ****ing terrible at test cricket.

Khawaja and Flynn are clones. We could bicker about whose more "talented" all day (we won't) but they are very similar players and they suck in similar ways. They even share a deep and abiding love of getting to 40 and getting out.

Until either one gets a front foot drive they won't do anything unless they develop ridiculous patience (which Flynn has) and know where their off stump is against inswingers (which neither know).

Granted, the last time I saw Khawaja was in 2011.

 

[Maximas]

since then, Khawaja managed to score 138 on an absolute minefield, (other team bowled out for under 100) so there is something to his technique, like you said, we are arguing about 2011 Khawaja, we'll just have to wait and see about him for now

 

[Justo]

Hasn't done much else though.

 

[Backlash]

I personally think you can't expect to continually churn out the sort of players you did in the late 90s. Seriously, that was one of the best teams of all time, and Australia could probably have fielded a team which would have been 2nd best in the world at the time - or at least damn close to it. I honestly don't think it's panic stations, but Australia isn't a huge country and guys like Ponting, Gilchrist, Warne and McGrath are most likely once in a generation type players.

Basically, I disagree that it's time to press the panic button. You're just used to watching one of the greatest teams to ever take the field and even in AFL and NRL didn't exist, you cannot expect to constantly churn out all time great players.

No one is expecting to churn out champions around the clock and have a dominator like team all the time but what is happening right now is not good enough. This is about as close to rock bottom as we can get and the sport is hardly in the position it used to be in to get out of this like in the mid 1980's.

We're about to lose 6 consecutive matches and lose 4 consecutive Ashes series (should be more), if this is not the time to press the panic button then when the hell is? Sadly most of Australian Cricket seems to be in denial. Honestly how someone can still think there isn't something wrong with Cricket in this country anymore is beyond me at this point.

Well said Heath, I have to agree somewhat with that Hendrix quote, good young test quality batsmen are becoming a rarity, it's probably got something to do with t20 and particularly the rise of ODI and List A cricket. Good players like Compton, Khawaja, Darren Bravo and Hughes are really struggling to perform well on the international stage. The SC is the only place I've seen consistent talent coming through in terms of batting, Thirramanne, Chandimal, Kohli, Pujara, Azher Ali and Asad Shafiq are some of the only young batsmen who I can think of who have really established themselves in their national sides, and even then they are somewhat unproven outside the SC. This is a worrying trend, but Backlash I reckon you can stop thinking this is just an Australian problem IMO.

So basically I shouldn't worry about how **** the batting is because most the Cricket World will probably follow suit? Knowing Cricket Australia this is no doubt part of their strategy.

By the way thoughts on Khawaja? I can't believe people still think he can make it.



Speaking of yesterday, I think it's pretty clear now that the honeymoon for this back to back Ashes event is well and truly over. This is going to be such a disaster for Australian Cricket and Test Cricket as a whole. Cricket Australia can't hide behind the 1st test now which just papered over the cracks. 8 more matches to go too. Lets see how Cricket Australia try and spin this. Lots of damage control coming up!

 

[NUFAN]

In the last 5 years NSW have won 0 Shield Finals and have been a runner up once. Watson, Khawaja, Hughes, Clarke, Smith and Haddin have often played for them in this time and one of NSW's main weaknesses has been their batting. Chris Rogers is the only batsman who hasn't played for NSW in that time and guess where he was born... Of course NSW players/born in NSW like Cowan, Warner, Henriques have also been tried and discarded for varying reasons (rubbish, suspended, bits and pieces).

Obviously Clarke escapes criticism but none of the other batsman in our current lineup average 36 in Test Cricket, that's woeful and during that time the likes of Voges, Bailey, Ferguson have shown promise representing Australia in ODIs but have never had an opportunity at Test Cricket. Then there is the likes of Cosgrove and Doolan who have produced the sort of performances that would almost certainly guarantee selection if they were from New South Wales.

As we've seen in the state of origin recently, the sporting state is used to losing (8STR8)

On to my more valid suggestion - I would actually change the point scoring in Shield matches to make winning outright down to 4 points instead of 6 and having a 0.5 bonus point for any team who bats out say 120 overs in the first innings of the match to reward teams who have batsman capable of lasting more than a session. Yes, its reactionary, but I think making a change like this would actually assist the next generation of Cricketers from/playing for NSW when they make the step up to the Australian team.

 

[Maximas]

I think making more batting friendly pitches in the SS might help, players are being brought into an environment where a half century can be matchwinning, it's not good enough, bowlers need to learn to toil a little, and batsmen need to learn how to get on top and stay on top, a few more draws would be a small price to pay for the overall batting improvement.

 

[Spikey]

Khawaja's been doing pretty well in the same competition..

average of 33 over the last two shield seasons

 

[Ruckus]

I think making more batting friendly pitches in the SS might help, players are being brought into an environment where a half century can be matchwinning, it's not good enough, bowlers need to learn to toil a little, and batsmen need to learn how to get on top and stay on top, a few more draws would be a small price to pay for the overall batting improvement.

It's kind of weird though, cause you'd think the other side of the coin would be the pitches should have fine-tuned their techniques to cope in difficult batting conditions, yet most of them suck at facing the moving ball too.

 

[Backlash]

Problems facing Australian cricket | Cricket Video | Sporting Life

Gideon Haigh discussing what he thinks is wrong Australian Cricket.

Someone tell him he's wrong. There's nothing wrong with Australian Cricket clearly. It'll all just work out for itself somehow.

 

[Hurricane]

It's kind of weird though, cause you'd think the other side of the coin would be the pitches should have fine-tuned their techniques to cope in difficult batting conditions, yet most of them suck at facing the moving ball too.

There was a good article I read once - it compared early 1900s players who learned their cricket on the easy batting pitches of Cambridge and Oxford against the blokes who went on to the more bowler friendly pro circuit during their developmental career. The batsman who learned to bat on roads went on to deal with the bowler friendly conditions much better than the players who just went straight in. This study did not control for the fact that perhaps the more talented players went to cambridge and Oxford to begin with - but if its conclusions are correct then you need long periods at the crease, preferrably a friendly crease, to learn.

 

[Maximas]

Thanks Hurricane, I guess you need to learn how to bat long consistently first, then adjust your technique to tougher conditions later, that's why Ponting and Hussey did well at the back end of the shield season.

 

[Flem274*]

You just need to make the pitches as fair as possible, or at least make them balance each other out over the course of a season.