Aswin vs Lyon

[Johan]

And Lyon is a problem against Eng who is the biggest rival of aus.

averages 30 and has nothing on par with the 2001-2 BGT where singlehandedly Harbhajan won India a series

 

[Narayana]

averages 30 and has nothing on par with the 2001-2 BGT where singlehandedly Harbhajan won India a series

In spinning friendly pitches*

 

[Johan]

I am sure Lyon would have done well against Australia.

let's see...

averages 32 against India
29.4 against England while he had some of the weakest English batting lineups since the war to bowl to
42 against Pakistan
39.4 against South Africa
35 against Sri Lanka

18.87 against New Zealand

nah, not making the 2000s India side

 

[subshakerz]

Lets be brutally honest, if you were the captain of Zimbabwe and you had to select one bowler, knowing that you would have to play equal tests in Ind/Pak/SL/Bangladesh and SENA, there is little chance any captain will pick Ashwin over Lyon.

Any added benefit of Ashwin in SC comes with him being a total handicap in SENA, whereas Lyon is a reasonable threat everywhere.

 

[Johan]

Any added benefit of Ashwin in SC comes with him being a total handicap in SENA, whereas Lyon is not a threat everywhere.

FTFY

 

[subshakerz]

based on being a 31 averaging international bowler and being outperformed by multiple spinners in India, he's never making over Ash and Jadeja in India, and he isn't good enough away to make in over Jadeja's batting

But he has a good record in India and you are comparing him with bowlers who play their entire careers there. You have little basis to jump to conclusions that he wouldnt make the Indian side.

If you can't make an argument worth a salt, atleast don't yap, instead of yapping you should work on having a standard that actually works consistently rather than a standard that gets picked apart by a little bit of critical thinking.

The standard was comparing players who were strong in one region and weak in another. You brought a bogus example that didn't match the original argument.

 

[sayon basak]

Lets be brutally honest, if you were the captain of Zimbabwe and you had to select one bowler, knowing that you would have to play equal tests in Ind/Pak/SL/Bangladesh and SENA, there is little chance any captain will pick Ashwin over Lyon.

Any added benefit of Ashwin in SC comes with him being a total handicap in SENA, whereas Lyon is a reasonable threat everywhere.

Wouldn't call someone who averages 30 almost everywhere a threat.

 

[Narayana]

let's see...

averages 32 against India
29.4 against England while he had some of the weakest English batting lineups since the war to bowl to
42 against Pakistan
39.4 against South Africa
35 against Sri Lanka

18.87 against New Zealand

nah, not making the 2000s India side

Played against the 3 greatest batters of all time but but weak england team lol

 

[subshakerz]

averages 30 and has nothing on par with the 2001-2 BGT where singlehandedly Harbhajan won India a series

That doesn't address the argument that India let a high averaging spinner play a decade.

 

[sayon basak]

The standard was comparing players who were strong in one region and weak in another. You brought a bogus example that didn't match the original argument.

And why doesn't Williamson fit that description?

 

[subshakerz]

Would call someone who averages 30 almost everywhere a threat.

Reasonable threat by spinner standards, yes, as in he has won games everywhere. Not by pacer standards obviously.

 

[subshakerz]

And why doesn't Williamson fit that description?

Which region is he strong in and region weak in?

 

[Johan]

But he has a good record in India and you are comparing him with bowlers who play their entire careers there. You have little basis to jump to conclusions that he wouldnt make the Indian side.

a lot of it, too mid to average under 30, his record in India is nothing special, his record in Sri Lanka, UAE, Pakistan os nothing special in either, in 2000s India he's not averaging under 30 given it was generally flatter, in 2010s India he was not outperforming Ashwin and Jadeja as we've already seen, so nah, too **** to make the side.

The standard was comparing players who were strong in one region and weak in another. You brought a bogus example that didn't match the original argument.

You said Lyon is more well rounded because he performs in SENA and conditions tougher per your own words, well then, same argument for Fleming vs Williamson, Fleming has performed in SA and SL which can be considered toughest conditions for batting throughout Fleming's career, you just got caught with your hand in a cookie jar and are mad now, happens.

That doesn't address the argument that India let a high averaging spinner play a decade.

well the high averaging spinner averages less than 30 at home, something clearly beyond Lyon's paygrade.

That doesn't address the argument that India let a high averaging spinner play a decade.

Lyon has not won a game anywhere except one test in New Zealand tbh, Harbhajan better.

 

[Randomfan]

Again with you raw averages.

It's not raw average at all.

Spinners are supposed to carry the team in spin friendly conditions. If they can't do that then it's a failure. Team is depending on you and you can't deliver.

 

[Johan]

Which region is he strong in and region weak in?

anywhere the ball moves, lmao

 

[subshakerz]

a lot of it, too mid to average under 30, his record in India is nothing special, his record in Sri Lanka, UAE, Pakistan os nothing special in either, in 2000s India he's not averaging under 30 given it was generally flatter, in 2010s India he was not outperforming Ashwin and Jadeja as we've already seen, so nah, too **** to make the side.

All besides the point since India last decade play Axar or Kuldeep and Lyon makes it ahead of those.

You said Lyon is more well rounded because he performs in SENA and conditions tougher per your own words, well then, same argument for Fleming vs Williamson, Fleming has performed in SA and SL which can be considered toughest conditions for batting throughout Fleming's career, you just got caught with your hand in a cookie jar and are mad now, happens.

SA and SL are part of two different regions.

well the high averaging spinner averages less than 30 at home, something clearly beyond Lyon's paygrade.

Let's imagine what Harbi would average in Australia over the 2010s shall we?

Lyon has not won a game anywhere except one test in New Zealand tbh

Won games in SL, India, Pakistan, England, NZ from what I recall

 

[Randomfan]

apparently being an elite ATG in 60-70% of your games is worse than being okay at home, decent at two venues and trash at 5 venues

That's the point I was trying to convey. You said it perfectly.

Lyon is not ATG in any conditions. Ashwin is elite ATG category in more than 60-70% of conditions (Asia + WI) he would play.

 

[subshakerz]

It's not raw average at all.

Spinners are supposed to carry the team in spin friendly conditions. If they can't do that then it's a failure. Team is depending on you and you can't deliver.

Lyon does that in India but Ashwin is the one who fails when it isn't spin friendly.

 

[subshakerz]

That's the point I was trying to convey. You said it perfectly.

Lyon is not ATG in any conditions. Ashwin is elite ATG category in more than 60-70% of conditions (Asia + WI) he would play.

What if Ashwin only played 30 percent of his games in India? That means he is a 30 percent worse cricketer all of a sudden? Come on man.

You only see the good in Ashwin and ignore his ineffectiveness.

 

[subshakerz]

anywhere the ball moves, lmao

Which regions?