Asif, Aktar in Doping Charges

[honestbharani]

No - its exactly like cheating. I don't think the "I'm only taking it to get over an injury" rationale is any different from "I want to get bigger muscles". Both aims are the same - you're introducing unnatural chemicals, or unnatural levels of naturally occuring chemicals, into your body to produce an unnatural result. Its the very definition of cheating - you're attempting to procure an unfair advantage over your competitors. It disadvantages people who aren't willing to break the rules to aid their recovery - and those people have every right to want to adhere to the rules as nobody knows what the long term effects of this stuff is. I'm afraid the 'it was only to get back in time for the CT' excuse is just a rationalisation.

And I did the Warney's mum bit 4 pages ago!

I am not trying to justify what they did. In fact, I do agree that it is a bit like cheating. But there is still the teeny tiny possibility that they may not have known the constituents of whatever it was that they took to recover faster from injury. They still deserve to be punished heavily for ignorance or innocence in this issue is also a crime, but I guess it won't exactly be cheating in that case. Either way, it was just that I had a problem with the tone of that post by Neil. It seemed very impolite and rude to me. As I said, it felt as though he was kicking a guy in the nuts when he was down.


I totally agree that it is cheating even if they used it to recover from injury. The unfortunate part is that all these drugs ultimately harm only the ones who take it. It is really unfortunate that they think it is worth it for the money they get.

 

[honestbharani]

With Warne I have to concede that given how absolutely stupid he is in regards to just about everything except playing cricket, it IS possible he thought he was just taking a diet pill. Particularly given his well publicised vanity and sensitivity given his physical appearance (ie. storming out of a press conference when a reporter made a fat joke about him, going to Advanced Hair, etc). Of all the rubbish excuses thrown up, its one of the more plausible, simply because its stupidity accords with what we know of Shane's off-the-field style.

That said, I don't really care why he took it, he took it. He deserved everything he got and probably more. If he's ever caught again, he deserves a life time ban.

Here's another conspiracy theory (probably false, but still...)



Why do you think he just suddenly "retired" from ODIs? Was it because he wanted to save himself for tests or because the drug tests by ICC only happen in ODI tournaments?

 

[telsor]

One of the problems with the drugs regime as it stands is that only 5 countries test their own players, with pakistan being the most recent to join that 'club'. Players from other countries can be drugged up betwen tournaments so long as their systems are clean by the time the ICC tournaments come around.

 

[marc71178]

There are some unconfirmed repots that Younis Khan has also tested positive and he may be also on his way out

I have no doubts that if he'd tested positive, they'd have dropped him straight away.

 

[marc71178]

Like Whiny piscine said.. if you're an aussie less than the minimum but otherwise minimum 2 years.

Except Warne wasn't banned for performance enhancing drugs.

 

[silentstriker]

Except Warne wasn't banned for performance enhancing drugs.

Except he was banned for a drug that masks performance enhancing drugs.

 

[BoyBrumby]

Except he was banned for a drug that masks performance enhancing drugs.

Quite right, should be no difference IMHO. Hence why I'd advocate a ban of a similar length to Warne's. Diuretics are obviously banned for a very good reason.

 

[archie mac]

Quite right, should be no difference IMHO. Hence why I'd advocate a ban of a similar length to Warne's. Diuretics are obviously banned for a very good reason.

I must admit I don't agree, one is like planning a bank robbery and being caught, the other is being caught while counting the loot.

Although I do agree that Warne should have been given two years

 

[BoyBrumby]

I must admit I don't agree, one is like planning a bank robbery and being caught, the other is being caught while counting the loot.

Although I do agree that Warne should have been given two years

I'm not sure I totally concur with your analogy, but if a lesser ban is given for masking agents than for steroids it strikes me as a double standard. There would be no incentive for a player to admit to wrong-doing if he knew he'd get a lesser ban. I'd similarly argue that avoiding a drugs test is as bad as failing one.

Over here Rio Ferdinand (English Association Footballer) was banned for 8 months for missing a test; reputedly due to his own forgetfulness/stupidity. Our FA left him out of an England squad before the ban was official (so as to not prejudice any results we got) & the rest of the squad briefly threatened to strike in a (misguided IMHO) show of support for Rio. There's a clear implication that they believed missing the test was somehow seen as a lesser transgression, but if it was treated as such the guilty (and I'm not for one second implying Rio was guilty) might as well never take another test!

 

[Mister Wright]

I'm not sure I totally concur with your analogy, but if a lesser ban is given for masking agents than for steroids it strikes me as a double standard. There would be no incentive for a player to admit to wrong-doing if he knew he'd get a lesser ban. I'd similarly argue that avoiding a drugs test is as bad as failing one.

Over here Rio Ferdinand (English Association Footballer) was banned for 8 months for missing a test; reputedly due to his own forgetfulness/stupidity. Our FA left him out of an England squad before the ban was official (so as to not prejudice any results we got) & the rest of the squad briefly threatened to strike in a (misguided IMHO) show of support for Rio. There's a clear implication that they believed missing the test was somehow seen as a lesser transgression, but if it was treated as such the guilty (and I'm not for one second implying Rio was guilty) might as well never take another test!

Totally agree. Masking agent just as bad as performance enhancing drug.

 

[Slow Love™]

One of the problems with the drugs regime as it stands is that only 5 countries test their own players, with pakistan being the most recent to join that 'club'. Players from other countries can be drugged up betwen tournaments so long as their systems are clean by the time the ICC tournaments come around.

God, this is all so messy. Standards should be uniform. Another way to look at this is the opposite - that teams with their own testing procedures may catch their offenders before the ICC does, and be able to impose their own shorter-term penalties, thus protecting the players from the harder line taken by the governing body.

When you think about this, Woolmer's insistence that they start doing their own testing makes a lot of sense, particularly if the PCB do hand out a softer ban to Asif and Akhtar. (This is not to insinuate at all that Woolmer was supportive of any drug-taking, of course).

 

[honestbharani]

Here's another conspiracy theory (probably false, but still...)



Why do you think he just suddenly "retired" from ODIs? Was it because he wanted to save himself for tests or because the drug tests by ICC only happen in ODI tournaments?

I was only kidding there, BTW. Just wanted to show how easy it is to come up with conspiracy theories.

 

[Matt79]

I was going to say. I'm pretty sure the ACA can test you for drugs whenever they want.

 

[Matt79]

I am not trying to justify what they did. In fact, I do agree that it is a bit like cheating. But there is still the teeny tiny possibility that they may not have known the constituents of whatever it was that they took to recover faster from injury. They still deserve to be punished heavily for ignorance or innocence in this issue is also a crime, but I guess it won't exactly be cheating in that case. Either way, it was just that I had a problem with the tone of that post by Neil. It seemed very impolite and rude to me. As I said, it felt as though he was kicking a guy in the nuts when he was down.


I totally agree that it is cheating even if they used it to recover from injury. The unfortunate part is that all these drugs ultimately harm only the ones who take it. It is really unfortunate that they think it is worth it for the money they get.

I don't see how in this day and age, given the amount of famous drug-busts that have occurred, any professional sportsman can take anything without knowing exactly what it is. It's not ignorance or naivete, its negligance and they deserve what they get. The only way to cover yourself is to consult with the official medical staff of your team and get written agreement that what you're going to take doesn't contravene the regs.

BTW I hope that the doctor/herbalist/whatever who supposedly gave this stuff to Akhtar and Asif is going to named and made to front the inquiry. They should get a life ban from cricket.

 

[Matt79]

Are you for real? what those ppl have said is entirely different from what you have been claiming. No one said that the test shouldn't have been conducted or that they should have been swept under the carpet. Miandad's held PCB responsible for the doping fiasco coz he felt that PCB had spoilt its players and never diciplined them,which resulted in players behaving in awful manner every now and then.He said exactly the same thing when Younis Khan acted like a child while rejecting captaincy only to be rewarded the captaincy again rather then being punished.
Imran said that PCB should have made the news official before the start of the tour rather than when than when the tour had already started, he also felt that PCB should have conducted an inquiry into the doping case.

Asif Iqbal has also crticize PCB for not educating players which is resulting in players doing stupid stuff again and again.

No one criticize PCB for conducting the test or for not sweeping under the carpet, however they are abolutely right to criticize PCB for handling the cricket affair in Pakistan as the way its being run is nothing but a joke.

I was reacting to the article I read which quoted them. I'll admit I haven't seen the full transcript of their interview, so its possible they were misquoted or quoted selectively. As I said, what really annoyed me was that I actually have had respect for those guys, particularly Imran, so for them to be saying what I thought they were saying really ****ed me off.

Do you have a link to the full interview of Imran or Miandad IBH?

 

[archie mac]

I'm not sure I totally concur with your analogy, but if a lesser ban is given for masking agents than for steroids it strikes me as a double standard. There would be no incentive for a player to admit to wrong-doing if he knew he'd get a lesser ban. I'd similarly argue that avoiding a drugs test is as bad as failing one.

Over here Rio Ferdinand (English Association Footballer) was banned for 8 months for missing a test; reputedly due to his own forgetfulness/stupidity. Our FA left him out of an England squad before the ban was official (so as to not prejudice any results we got) & the rest of the squad briefly threatened to strike in a (misguided IMHO) show of support for Rio. There's a clear implication that they believed missing the test was somehow seen as a lesser transgression, but if it was treated as such the guilty (and I'm not for one second implying Rio was guilty) might as well never take another test!

Why didn't he receive two years? This is the thing varying degrees of guilty, is missing a test as bad as testing positive for a masking agent, is testing positive for a masking agent as bad as testing positive for steroids? I can't remember anyone off hand admiting to being gulity of taking PED.

 

[Matt79]

Its like the whole thing where people equate what he and Mark Waugh did to what Azaruddin and Cronje did, in terms of match-fixing. The reality is that Waugh and Warne did the equivalent of some minor shop-lifting, while Hansie and co held an armed stick-up of the bank.

 

[shortpitched713]

Did anyone else find this ironic ??

Yeah, I was hoping someone would spot that. Anyway, after the past two months, I long for the days when Pakistani bowlers were called chuckers.

 

[BoyBrumby]

Why didn't he receive two years? This is the thing varying degrees of guilty, is missing a test as bad as testing positive for a masking agent, is testing positive for a masking agent as bad as testing positive for steroids? I can't remember anyone off hand admiting to being gulity of taking PED.

I honestly don't know! &, IIRC, Jaap Stam (Dutch footballer) actually got 5 months for testing postive for nandrolone. No consistency across sports, obviously.

Mike Selvey talks about drugs in cricket in today's Guardian:

http://blogs.guardian.co.uk/sport/2006/10/19/cricket_must_not_drop_its_guar.html

He's coming from the same sort of place as me WRT Warney:

"Getting on for four years ago, at the last World Cup, when it was revealed that Shane Warne had tested positive for a banned diuretic, he claimed it had been taken for reasons of vanity. It was none the less a fact that diuretics of that kind were known masking agents and that the timescale of Warne's comeback from a dislocated shoulder had been very rapid. When his subsequent two-year ban was halved, the chairman of Wada, **** Pound, apparently went incandescent."

EDIT: "****" = popular diminutive of Richard.

 

[archie mac]

I honestly don't know! &, IIRC, Jaap Stam (Dutch footballer) actually got 5 months for testing postive for nandrolone. No consistency across sports, obviously.

Mike Selvey talks about drugs in cricket in today's Guardian:

http://blogs.guardian.co.uk/sport/2006/10/19/cricket_must_not_drop_its_guar.html

He's coming from the same sort of place as me WRT Warney:

"Getting on for four years ago, at the last World Cup, when it was revealed that Shane Warne had tested positive for a banned diuretic, he claimed it had been taken for reasons of vanity. It was none the less a fact that diuretics of that kind were known masking agents and that the timescale of Warne's comeback from a dislocated shoulder had been very rapid. When his subsequent two-year ban was halved, the chairman of Wada, **** Pound, apparently went incandescent."

EDIT: "****" = popular diminutive of Richard.

I think **** Pound is American or Canadian, maybe he should look into Baseball where they are legally allowed to take a number of drugs which are banned by just about every other sport in the World.

Still not arguing I think Mr Warne should have copped two years, but don't think it is as bad as testing positive for drugs. Not sure but I imagine the Aussie team is tested more than just about any other team in World sport