Ashes Squad Announced

[wpdavid]

I've been saying the same actually. The point that seals it for me is that I plain and simple don't trust Saj Mahmood or Liam Plunkett not to get belted around the park, and a tail of Hoggard-Harmison-Anderson-Panesar is out of the question.

Bottom line is agree with you about how we should line up, with Fred at 7 followed by read, Hogg, Harmy & Monty. Unfortunately I don't actually trust Hoggard & Harmison to threaten a great deal, so I think we're in trouble tbh. Maybe being part of a 4-man attack would focus their minds though. If they are out of sorts, they can't just spend the day at fine leg and hope that the others can sort it out for the side.

 

[PY]

Bottom line is agree with you about how we should line up, with Fred at 7 followed by read, Hogg, Harmy & Monty. Unfortunately I don't actually trust Hoggard & Harmison to threaten a great deal, so I think we're in trouble tbh. Maybe being part of a 4-man attack would focus their minds though. If they are out of sorts, they can't just spend the day at fine leg and hope that the others can sort it out for the side.

Being a bit harsh on Hoggy aren't you mate?

I trust Hoggard to put his all into everything, that may not be good enough some of the time but I don't dare call his effort into question. Harmison, however, you have to because he's pathetic mentally.

I think his current injury is another cry-baby incident to be quite honest. He needs someone to take a stump to him to sort him out.

 

[wpdavid]

Being a bit harsh on Hoggy aren't you mate?

I trust Hoggard to put his all into everything, that may not be good enough some of the time but I don't dare call his effort into question.

Maybe. But he was poor for much of the summer, and I'm not at all confident he'll do a lot in Aus. It wasn't his effort I was questioning as such. More the attitude I felt was there last summer whereby if conditions didn't obviously suit then it was up to others to shift batsmen. I'm sure that he's have run in and done his best if called upon though.

 

[PY]

Good news

Might be inconsequential anyway.

 

[Steulen]

Good news

Might be inconsequential anyway.

So 7 out of 16 are now crocked. Are they planning for 6-a-side Ashes or what?

 

[tooextracool]

Tim de Lisle on Lewis before he wasn't selected:



It is a bit simplsitic to discount Lewis just because he wasn't selected.

Lewis not being selected is pretty obvious in my book, swing bowlers rarely come out with any sort of success in Australia, and Lewis hardly set the world alight when he played test cricket in England anyways.
Whether or not hes better than Plunkett or Mahmood that is another story, but i personally would have had a mystery player like Owais Shah(somebody who the Aussies wouldnt know much about) in there instead of Plunkett.

 

[tooextracool]

Pietersen averages 46.83 post-Ashes
Bell averages 51.18 in the same period
Collingwood 48.47
Flintoff 30.37 and 28.04 with the ball

As I've said for quite sometime, I'd be quite happy with Flintoff at seven, with all three of KP, IB and PC playing. Flintoff, Hoggard, Harmison, Panesar is not an attack to be sniffed at, Collingwood, Bell and Pietersen can all turn their arm over if need be, though they do have only one Test wicket each.

It's not an issue of KP's performance not being good enough, it's the fact that the other two have performed better. KP averages 50+ against the Aussies though and still stands out as the most likely to succeed down under, especially against Warne and McGrath.

Throw in Cook (54.35) and if we bat down to Flintoff at 7, it's quite the middle order

i can only see the point of going in with a 4 man attack if Anderson isnt fit. Forget about having to put pressure on Flintoff who wouldnt have bowled in an international game since his injury, Harmison and Hoggard are about as likely to fail in Australia as they are to succeed. Englands biggest concern will be taking 20 wickets every gamr, and i think they'd find that job a lot easier if they had 5 bowlers than if they had 4.

 

[tooextracool]

Pietersen, likeHarmison, must play, to leave them out would be insane.

They often fail spectacularly but on the occasions they do get it right they're a free ride to victory. Dependable batsmen like Bell and Collingwood will never have that quality.

thats equivalent to picking afridi in the side to be honest.
Pietersen has 'gotten it right' so to speak about a billion times during the winter and summer only to throw away his advantage and cost England the game. As such his average since the Ashes that was mentioned before(46 odd) is extremely poor when you consider that hes been repreived about 2 dozen times and sooner or later his luck is going to run out.

 

[UncleTheOne]

If Giles is fit, who would you rather play him or Panesar?

Panesar is probably better potentially, but I hold grave fears for his confidence if he makes blunders in the field, the Australian crowd will certaintly not forget it. Just wait to the Boxing Day Test.

I really don't understand where all this, 'oh they'll get on his back, then he'll fail badly under the pressure' comes from. By all accounts he is an extremely mentally strong young bloke and is not unsettled by the fans or batsmen looking to go after him.

His fielding isn't the greatest but he was fairly solid this summer and made very few mistakes, his major problem is that he isn't a natural athlete.

But his fielding and batting are no where near as bad as some people would like you to think. Maybe it's Fletcher propaganda to get Giles in the side.

 

[PY]

But his ...... batting are no where near as bad as some people would like you to think. Maybe it's Fletcher propaganda to get Giles in the side.

I agree, he can certainly bat IMO.

He's almost got a rep (through Fletcher and other media folk) of being another Devon Malcolm-style swisher. I'd say with some experience and confidence, he could be a #9 in our line-up.

Everyone cheers when he wanders in to bat and give the ol' 'waaaayyyy' when he scores runs which I don't think does him justice.

 

[Barney Rubble]

I agree, he can certainly bat IMO.

He's almost got a rep (through Fletcher and other media folk) of being another Devon Malcolm-style swisher. I'd say with some experience and confidence, he could be a #9 in our line-up.

Everyone cheers when he wanders in to bat and give the ol' 'waaaayyyy' when he scores runs which I don't think does him justice.

Totally agree. He played one crunching textbook cover-drive in the Pakistan series which any number three would have been proud of.

 

[UncleTheOne]

Totally agree. He played one crunching textbook cover-drive in the Pakistan series which any number three would have been proud of.

That was sweet. Loved him sweep slogging Murali for 6 as well. That was a highly entertaining little knock. Can't wait to see him take on Warne.

 

[marc71178]

If Giles is fit, who would you rather play him or Panesar?

Giles if it's a 5 man attack, Panesar if it's a 4 man attack.

 

[BoyBrumby]

Giles if it's a 5 man attack, Panesar if it's a 4 man attack.

Both in Sydney & maybe Perth too, if the reports of the WACA pitch are to be believed.

 

[Steulen]

thats equivalent to picking afridi in the side to be honest.
Pietersen has 'gotten it right' so to speak about a billion times during the winter and summer only to throw away his advantage and cost England the game. As such his average since the Ashes that was mentioned before(46 odd) is extremely poor when you consider that hes been repreived about 2 dozen times and sooner or later his luck is going to run out.

Pietersen gets it right more often than Afridi.

A 46 average is still far from bad, and it's not all down to luck.

 

[tooextracool]

Pietersen gets it right more often than Afridi.

A 46 average is still far from bad, and it's not all down to luck.

Its not very good when you're the luckiest batsman in the side, and everytime you get a 100 you get reprieved at least 3 times. And its certainly not very good when everyone else in the middle order is scoring more runs and more consistently than you are. Im not saying drop him completely,but why in the blue hell is he being given assurance by the English management that hes a certainity when everyone else is playing better than him?

 

[Burgey]

Where's Gary Pratt?

 

[aussie]

Pietersen averages 46.83 post-Ashes
Bell averages 51.18 in the same period
Collingwood 48.47
Flintoff 30.37 and 28.04 with the ball

As I've said for quite sometime, I'd be quite happy with Flintoff at seven, with all three of KP, IB and PC playing. Flintoff, Hoggard, Harmison, Panesar is not an attack to be sniffed at, Collingwood, Bell and Pietersen can all turn their arm over if need be, though they do have only one Test wicket each.

It's not an issue of KP's performance not being good enough, it's the fact that the other two have performed better. KP averages 50+ against the Aussies though and still stands out as the most likely to succeed down under, especially against Warne and McGrath.

Throw in Cook (54.35) and if we bat down to Flintoff at 7, it's quite the middle order

100% agree i've had this idea for a long time & if you look to the future beyond the Ashes with the likely return of Jones & Vaughan i think a 4-man attack will have to be strongly considered because its a fact if Panesar holds on to the main spinner role plus 4 other bowlers England's will have a LONG tail.

So in the future the idea of i.e either picking 4-seamers in Harmy/Hoggard/Freddie/Jones or 3 seamers & Panesar since it as Australia have shown once they are top class 4 specialist bowlers can certainly do the job & it will make England much stronger.

Trescothick
Strauss
Vaughan
Bell
Pietersen
Collingwood
Flintoff
Read
Harmison
Jones
Hoggard/Panesar

That team certainly has the potential to dominate world cricket

But looking at the ashes if the selectors pick 4-seamers it will depend on Flintoff's form with the ball going into the series.

 

[vic_orthdox]

Whether or not hes better than Plunkett or Mahmood that is another story, but i personally would have had a mystery player like Owais Shah(somebody who the Aussies wouldnt know much about) in there instead of Plunkett.

Didn't Shah play his first games of international cricket against Australia?

 

[Mister Wright]

Didn't Shah play his first games of international cricket against Australia?

I can remember him playing against the Aussies a few times in ODIs.