As a Windies fan i'm insulted

[G.I.Joe]

If the another T20 world cup should be held next year people would doubt west indies even tho they reached this year's final, won in 2012 and reached the semis in 2014.

Pakistan won 2009, reached the final in 2007, and made the semis in 2010 and 2012.

Clearly should not have doubted them this time round.

 

[Ilovecric]

Pakistan won 2009, reached the final in 2007, and made the semis in 2010 and 2012.

Clearly should not have doubted them this time round.

2009 - how many players remain on the team ? and 2007 ? really ? But reaching the semis and 2010 and 2012 indicate the team shouldn't be counted out. Not sure why Australia and South Africa are constantly given more respect than WI in this format.

 

[G.I.Joe]

2009 - how many players remain on the team ? and 2007 ? really ?

So you're allowed to bring up the grovel comment from ages ago and say that it drives the current crop of players, but one can't count proven pedigree in the format for another team?

 

[dontcloseyoureyes]

This thread is a classic case of people playing the poster and not the actual thread. He has a pretty good point IMO.

 

[Aaron510]

First of all congratulations to u..I have always liked West Indian team.. They made cricket cool.. So congrats to the Windies team..

I just wanted to say that u shouldn't pay attention to commentators and so called ex cricketers.. I stopped listening to Chappell long time ago.. He is always biased toward Aus cricketers.. And even slater and Warne was annoying in commentary saying starc is one of the best bowlers in t20. Hell I don't remember him playing t20 game in along time.. If we want to bust out best bowlers who hasn't played in a long time.. Nobody is better than umar gul.. Yea Warne and slater will not mention that because he is not Aussie.. Smh

 

[cpr]

But they won the T20 world cup recently and their players dominate all over the world in T20, therefore since we're talking about T20 why consider other formats when they're clearly more interested in T20 ?

Because they've failed to perform in any format of the game that lasts more than 5 minutes in God knows how long.

Newsflash, most of these commentators have been doing this much longer than T20 has been around, and won't pander over WI obvious failings in the more respected forms of the game just because they've mastered the sideshow.

 

[G.I.Joe]

Does anyone know what finally became of that standoff between the prima donnas and the WICB?

 

[cpr]

This thread is a classic case of people playing the poster and not the actual thread. He has a pretty good point IMO.

Maybe, but someone who's been a member of the forum for 7 years should know how to make the point in an intelligent way which invites debate of a decent level, not just 'Waah we want respect'.

 

[Black_Warrior]

Everybody was harping about Windies being a one man team, India relied solely on one player throughout the tournament and not one mention that India is the true one time with over 40% of their runs being scored by Kohli.

It is quite insulting to hear the rhetoric in the media and only Jayawardene made respectful comments. You had one Mark NIcholas saying the players have no brain and therefore had no chance CHappell not even giving them a chance to make the Semis etc usually backed up by some offhanded comment. Quite nice to see them proving these rude commenters (most of which could never do what they do) wrong.

Because most people make these judgements based on how the WI team performs in Test and ODI cricket. The moment I saw the squad that was announced featuring the likes of Gayle, Russell, Badree, I knew this is a solid with a fair chance at the shot. The likes of Chappells and Nicholas were forming their opinions based on the West Indies team that toured Australia last summer, which was quite different from this side

 

[Ilovecric]

So you're allowed to bring up the grovel comment from ages ago and say that it drives the current crop of players, but one can't count proven pedigree in the format for another team?

I meant the grovel comment was inspirational to past players and this current insults like not having a brain etc should drive the players currently playing. I'm not sure you're understanding me tho.

 

[Kirkut]

I've always rated West Indies very highly in T20 format. Their players are in high demand in global t20 tournaments, be it IPL, Big Bash, Pakistan, Bangladesh league or Natwest cup.
It's good to see that they actually enjoy t20 cricket.

 

[indiaholic]

OP sounds like an Indian fan who just started supporting the windows because they won.

 

[Ilovecric]

Serious read this article
Mark Nicholas: Who will challenge the ballsy MS Dhoni at the World T20 in India? | Cricket | ESPN Cricinfo

"Australia can stop Dhoni but, a little like England, will have to play spin better on spinning pitches. Both teams lamp the spinners on flat pitches but greater nous is needed to outwit Ravi Ashwin, Ravindra Jadeja and Yuvraj Singh on a dustbowl. Shane Watson must open with David Warner and take responsibility to bat long. One of England's dynamic front three must do the same. Moeen Ali must be moved up the order. The Australians have considerable IPL experience. England do not.

Watch out for South Africa. Until the semi-final stage, that is (old joke). South Africa have their own Dhoni in AB de Villiers, a modern freak, and suddenly have a few faces hitherto unidentified - men like Chris Morris and David Wiese - who can shake things up a little, even shake off the old joke, because AB cannot do the finishing alone. Faf du Plessis is a smart captain. South Africa are real contenders.

Sri Lanka, Pakistan and Bangladesh are short of class but will cope okay with the conditions. West Indies are short of brains but have IPL history in their ranks. New Zealand are worth a look for they have a savvy bunch of scrappers and some mighty hitting power to boot"

This guy needs to apologize to the West Indies. Short of brains ?


Now look at this second article with him praising Kohli and Root - seperate issue but it explains why some players will never be respect by some analysis - essentially - WI power hitters are not classy enough - English - Elegant and classical style of play is a thing of beauty and should be praised and remembered.

Mark Nicholas: Joe Root and Virat Kohli show T20 batting can be beautiful and destructive | Cricket | ESPN Cricinfo

lol

While we can all watch aghast at Chris Gayle's muscled blows and Martin Guptill's explosive opening acts, they do not linger - at least not for me - as pieces of art. Contemporary batting was waiting for these translations of the textbook. They are a reminder that good technique is relevant and adaptable. Perhaps Root and Kohli have given us the paradigm shift of batting. Perhaps attaching attack to defence has done a 360-degree turn. Perhaps now the skill is attaching defence to attack and applying it to short periods of batting during which survival matters but at relatively little cost.

As these games rush by, leaving only faint impressions, it will be the ability to bat successfully at crucial moments that remain with us. If that achievement comes with the beauty that first ignited our senses, we will begin to see how T20's future can enhance the landscape and touch not just the young and impatient but the old and supposedly wise too.

Cricket is a freaking sport - tough sport that even kills and put people in hospital for days and even weeks at times. It's filled with cheaters, liars, corruptions etc. To Isolate the game and focus on some so call art of special players seem a bit too pretentious. This guy is insulting every aggressive and forceful player - you couldn't pay me to watch Root bat and def not in T20. He might score a few good innings here and there but it's unlikely he will leave a mark on the game. The bradman of T20 is ignored for these players - it's nice Kohli likes to chase but setting a target is also equally important and in this arena he fails drastically. Nobody around the world is attracted to the game because of a Root and to a smaller extent - a Kohli - in fact trying to play the game like he does means losing as team realize you can't win by runnings ones and twos lol. Need sixes and fours - lots of them and the ones that demoralize teams. I know this is a different issue from my initial topic but reading Mark's article just inspired a critique. Eng would much rather face India - for one sending them in to bat first improves your chances as demonstrated today. Had Gayle batted for 5 overs WI could have been 70 after 6 and cruising towards 190. The game is evolving and it's showing in ODIs where teams are making 330 plus so often and losing like it's nothing. To survive in this new world requires the forgettable muscled blows - you're not going to ones and twos your way towards chasing 350 or setting such totals for that matter lol.

 

[AndyZaltzHair]

I have seen plenty of people respecting this WI T20 side. One Mark Nicholas does not change it. Many associated danger with this WI side on their day in the shorter format.

 

[Black_Warrior]

ilovecric,

The reason people like Nicholas write stuff like that is not something personal against West Indies. It's the fact that they are quite ignorant about cricket teams outside of the major nations. I don't want to make this about Big 3 but guys like Nicholas, Chappell, Bhogle or Channel 9 commentators watch more cricket involving India, England and Australia, and as a result are more well versed with players and records of those teams. They barely watch or keep track of cricket involving the other teams.
Outside of that, they are poorly informed and can't be bothered to do the research. It used to bother me at first but now i am used to it. Most of the times, these guys can barely name any of the Pakistani or Bangladeshi players.. During the World Cup 2015, Healy was referring to Pakistan players as 'that guy on the left, the tall fielder' etc.

So, basically when they write these articles, names like Root, Kohli and Warner are what they are familiar with as they have seen more of their cricket.

 

[indiaholic]

Nothing wrong with preferring the aesthetic of a Kohli or a Root. But it would be boring if everybody played like them.

 

[indiaholic]

And Nicholas not mentioning Williamson as the peak of cricketing beauty is further proof of B_W's point.

 

[G.I.Joe]

The bradman of T20 is ignored for these players - it's nice Kohli likes to chase but setting a target is also equally important and in this arena he fails drastically. Nobody around the world is attracted to the game because of a Root and to a smaller extent - a Kohli - in fact trying to play the game like he does means losing as team realize you can't win by runnings ones and twos lol. Need sixes and fours - lots of them and the ones that demoralize teams.

Bradman wouldn't be 'Bradman' if there existed another Test player averaging 162 over 52 Tests.

Innings	Player	Ave	SR
Chasing	Gayle	36	155
	Kohli	91	133
First	Gayle	36	138
	Kohli	40	138

Does this mean that Gayle too "fails drastically" at setting a target?

 

[Shady Slim]

that said that is the not-out average

like naturally the average of kohli is drastically overinflated when chasing bc he remains not out at the end, and rightly so, but can you find "pure average" for them to see if that changes things?

i'm unsure whether it would actually do more to gayle who often remains not out when he makes his hundreds

i feel that the traditional method of average calculating doesn't work as well for t20 and using just runs over innings would work better because here in the shortest format the individual wicket isn't really valued its more just the team total

like in a t20 its good to sometimes have a y who comes in, makes eighteen off six and gets out to get the chase back on track, but you don't often hear of someone ringing compliments for a guy in a test who comes in, then consolidates the innings but gets out as soon as consolidation is done and dusted

 

[Arachnodouche]

I love that this Windies batting side is so physically intimidating. They are the T20 equivalents of what the pace batteries of old were like. No exaggeration, they have some presence on the field.

But they'll only ever be good at the twenty over game and that's an indictment all its own too.