Are medium-pacers useful in modern test cricket?

[bryce]

In saying that even late in his career his pace was above 130km/h which

Uh, yes he could still bowl at 130+, no doubt about that, but the point is a large portion of the balls he delivered late in his international career were more around the 125 mark

 

[Jakester1288]

Most certainly. They are very useful. They are usually economical and tie up an end, sometimes chipping in with the odd wicket. As long as they are not frontline bowlers and are more batting allrounders or pure than bowling allrounders, they are very useful.

 

[pup11]

I mean real medium-pacers, not your Glenn McGrath/Jacques Kallis types, the Brendan Nash/Paul Collingwood/Andrew McDonald trundlers who the keepers will always stand up to. Do these guys have a realistic place in a bowling lineup? Thoughts.

With all due respects to Nash and Collingwood' bowling, i think McDonald is a sligtly better bowler than both, eventhough he operates at similar pace, he is much more accurate and can swing the ball too.

Anyways... back on topic, i think medium-pacers have a place in a test team, if they are accurate and if they can either seam or swing the ball to go with it, because if at that pace if all they do is bowl straight then they would get thumped.

 

[craigyc43]

As someone has said a lot of it is down to how good and flat the pitches are in the current game. To be successful at that kind of pace you really need something a bit special, one of the few is Chaminda Vaas. All the other bowlers who bowl at sub 80mph are usually all rounders or part time bowlers.

 

[Goughy]

Hell to me is medium pacers and 'no-spin' bowlers like Gayle bowling.

The sport should reward talent more than it does. Encourage the athletes to bowl fast and the daring to rip that ball.

 

[chaminda_00]

With modern cricket most batsmen can handle pace. It swing or movement at high pace batsmen struggle with, or a low pace. Reckon we are about to medo come back when batsmen have no problems at all with pace. The search for the swinger in 5 years imo.

 

[thierry henry]

Uh, yes he could still bowl at 130+, no doubt about that, but the point is a large portion of the balls he delivered late in his international career were more around the 125 mark

Exactly. Even right at the end of his career, McGrath still sometimes (esp in ODIs) bowled mid 130s, yet I swear sometimes he went through an entire test without hitting 130kph and still succeeded. Not sure why tbh, but he could do it.

Guys like Hopes, Styris, Oram, Diremanti, McDonald, Hall etc could all hit 130kph, so in terms of pace there's really no difference between a part-time "dibbly-dobbly" and a slower-than-normal new ball bowler. Gavin Larsen could hit 130kph tbh.

 

[pup11]

Exactly. Even right at the end of his career, McGrath still sometimes (esp in ODIs) bowled mid 130s, yet I swear sometimes he went through an entire test without hitting 130kph and still succeeded. Not sure why tbh, but he could do it.

Guys like Hopes, Styris, Oram, Diremanti, McDonald, Hall etc could all hit 130kph, so in terms of pace there's really no difference between a part-time "dibbly-dobbly" and a slower-than-normal new ball bowler. Gavin Larsen could hit 130kph tbh.

Its because he bowled an immaculate line, and even when he was not bowling at great pace, he got this lift of the pitch, and had nip his deliveries, backed by a good split finger slower ball and an accurate yorker.

So when you sum it all up, you realise why the man was one of the greatest ever to have played the game.

 

[masterblaster]

Any indian fast bowler.

For the record Zaheer Khan and Ishant Sharma > Umar Gul and Tanvir or any other Pakistani combination for that matter.

 

[Manee]

A medium pace bowler with no extra wicket taking dimension of height, bounce, swing or seam cannot be successful at Test level. Moreover, a medium paced bowler is often reliant on pitch conditions to aid them.

Chaminda Vaas operated at 115-120kph toward the end of his Test career, while operating with the old ball (bowled at 130kph with the new ball). He had success in West Indies, Sri Lanka and Bangladesh, all of whom offered slow, low tracks which exemplified the lack of pace and made it difficult for batsmen to score off him and also go back to deliveries that may keep low. When he lulled the batsmen into this defensive shell, it caused complacency in the batsmen's strokeplay, allowing him to take wickets with even the slightest deviation off the straight.

Someone like Jacob Oram is quite the opposite. In New Zealand, where the pitches are often moist, the ball can skid through and he can bowl slower than full capacity, at around 120kph and still pick up wickets because the pitches make it seem as 130kph and he can cash in on the extra accuracy he can provide while slowing down. Oram also has the height which adds intangible pace to his deliveries (intangible in that it is not registered on the speed gun).

The key is that both these bowlers are operating at well below their full capacity of pace and so those who bowl with the same effort as any other fast medium bowler (but at 120kph) will tend not to have this extra accuracy and therefore will struggle at Test level.

 

[Nutter]

What about Kyle Mills? 125-130kph.

 

[zaremba]

Hell to me is medium pacers and 'no-spin' bowlers like Gayle bowling.

The sport should reward talent more than it does. Encourage the athletes to bowl fast and the daring to rip that ball.

Spot on. The day I realised that Peter Taylor could be an outstanding bowler in ODI cricket was the day that I stopped really giving a toss about ODI cricket.

 

[thierry henry]

Its because he bowled an immaculate line, and even when he was not bowling at great pace, he got this lift of the pitch, and had nip his deliveries, backed by a good split finger slower ball and an accurate yorker.

So when you sum it all up, you realise why the man was one of the greatest ever to have played the game.

I meant "not sure why" his pace changed from game to game like that, not "not sure why" he was successful.

 

[TT Boy]

Any indian fast bowler.

 

[Richard]

Define medium-pacer

Nothing above 80mph.

Nah, don't agree with that at all TBH. The general description I tend to use is in kph, but it can be translated:
140+ - fast
130-139 - fast-medium
120-129 - medium-fast
110-119 - medium

Paul Collingwood is certainly not a medium-pacer, he's medium-fast. Brendan Nash is, he's low-70s at best. Bryan Strang and Pommie Mbangwa were likewise. These days, so is Chaminda Vaas and he's still capable of being as devastating as ever. He was 130-ish up to about 2005 or so though.

 

[Richard]

Only if they are a good mover of the ball, if they can do nothing with it, there is not really a place for those types of bowlers I'm afraid.

There's not really a place for any bowler who doesn't move the ball TBH. Top-class batsmen don't get beaten purely for pace unless it's ridiculously, Shaun Tait-esque fast - and that's Shaun Tait's absolute quickest ball that even he can only bowl once every few spells.

 

[thierry henry]

Nah, don't agree with that at all TBH. The general description I tend to use is in kph, but it can be translated:
140+ - fast
130-139 - fast-medium
120-129 - medium-fast
110-119 - medium

Paul Collingwood is certainly not a medium-pacer, he's medium-fast. Brendan Nash is, he's low-70s at best. Bryan Strang and Pommie Mbangwa were likewise. These days, so is Chaminda Vaas and he's still capable of being as devastating as ever. He was 130-ish up to about 2005 or so though.

Rich, you're setting your sights fairly low there. Practically anyone who's anyone can bowl over 130kph- Scott Styris, James Hopes, Gavin Larsen, Brendan Diamanti etc as mentioned earlier.

Also struggling to cop Nathan Astle, Michael Hussey, Ricky Ponting etc as "medium-fast".

 

[Richard]

Most certainly. They are very useful. They are usually economical and tie up an end, sometimes chipping in with the odd wicket.

It's accuracy that makes the overwhelming contribution to your economy-rate, not speed of bowling.

 

[thierry henry]

btw, who on earth bowls 110-119?

In all honesty I can't think of anyone who actually bowls. Even the direst part-time trundler can top 120kph.

Only Chris Harris comes to mind as always being under 120, but he also rarely hit 110kph apart from maybe earlier in his career.

 

[Richard]

Rich, you're setting your sights fairly low there. Practically anyone who's anyone can bowl over 130kph- Scott Styris, James Hopes, Gavin Larsen, Brendan Diamanti etc as mentioned earlier.

Also struggling to cop Nathan Astle, Michael Hussey, Ricky Ponting etc as "medium-fast".

Never saw Astle bowl anywhere near 125kph TBH, never looked at what speeds Hussey bowls and Ponting, well, on the very rare occasion he's bowled seam he's usually been 115-116kph.

The out-and-out medium-pacer is EXTREMELY rare. Medium-fast is more common than most people give it credit for.