Are England really favourites for CT17?

[Burner]

England had the trophy offered to them on a well decorated plate in the 2013 tourney. It was a monumental choke-job and if it was done by SA they'd have never heard the end of it. They needed 20 off 16 balls with 6 wickets in hand and they kept getting out to Ishant.

They were not favourites back then though. They ARE this time. Curious to see how they'll go this time.

 

[S.Kennedy]

Some of these media types have practically awarded the trophy to England already. One or two of the players seem to have awarded the trophy to themselves also! The hype and English arrogance (cf. Billings's recent comments) is reaching levels of absurdity and could bite them in the bum if it goes **** up. Since England's 'post-World Cup 2015 turnaround', they have been beaten by Australia, South Africa and India in one-dayers, the former of those in England.

 

[Adders]

Mate, I'd really suggest you stop getting wound up by the English tabloids........have they ever been any different with any of our sporting teams? Build them up and then tear them down......it's what they do. Their headlines do not represent the views of English cricket fans.

As for the players, can you link to some comments? I certainly haven't seen anything ****y from any of them. What did Billings say?

 

[Black_Warrior]

I think we will have a better idea of England's ODI team by the end of the Champions Trophy. The South Africa ODI series will be a tight one and England's group in CT is tough.. If they can overcome both, that will demonstrate the team's Post WC 2015 improvement in a stronger fashion.

Looking a bit more long term, say next World Cup, England will need to beef up their bowling. At this point, it is considerably behind Australia, India and South Africa and in a long tournament like the World Cup, you cannot just rely on blowing everyone away with your power batting..because you won't be able to do that against every team.

The difference in India's performances when they have their first choice bowling attack and when they field a crap bowling attack is a great example. India's batting wasn't at it's best during the last World Cup but they made it to the semis simply because of how well they bowled in that tournament.

 

[Zinzan]

People are overrating SA... our middle order batting is soft, and our allrounders are actually untested.

Nah, they beat NZ at home, which no other side has done in donkey's years IIRC, and they have arguably 7-8 world class players in their XI. People need to stop making excuses for them in advance in my opinion, they have no excuse not to be up there with Australia based on talent.

To answer the thread question, no England should not be favourites with their relatively ordinary bowling line-up imo. Australia should be, with SA a close 2nd.... then England and India.

 

[S.Kennedy]

Mate, I'd really suggest you stop getting wound up by the English tabloids........have they ever been any different with any of our sporting teams? Build them up and then tear them down......it's what they do. Their headlines do not represent the views of English cricket fans.

As for the players, can you link to some comments? I certainly haven't seen anything ****y from any of them. What did Billings say?

See this weeks the Cricket paper, an article by (I think) Derek Pringle.

 

[Adders]

Nah **** that. I'm not going looking for articles that support a view of yours that I reckon is BS in the first place.........if you want some credibility you'll post the links that back up this opinion of yours.

 

[Howe_zat]

Article that may not exist in one weekly I've never heard of = 'the media'

Tip: if you ever find yourself talking about 'the media' as a whole, stop, delete it, go have a cup of tea.

 

[S.Kennedy]

Nah **** that. I'm not going looking for articles that support a view of yours that I reckon is BS in the first place.........if you want some credibility you'll post the links that back up this opinion of yours.

Go to a decent newsagents before Friday, pay £1:50 and there is your article! If you are too lazy to do that, I cannot help you any further! Alternatively you could wait until it appears on their website: The Cricket Paper From test match to village green | The Cricket Paper (it may just take a week).

PS

This is the front cover,

 

[marc71178]

Come on Adders, £1.50 is cheap compared to the flights and time off work you'd need to take to get here, just to read one single article that is now apparently the whole media...

 

[S.Kennedy]

The whole British media has got England as favourites. In regards to evidence to this point, it is not so much a question of trying to find an article in which they are 'favourites', but trying to find an article in which they are not 'favourites' - there is an abundance of riches here, such is the hyperbole. It is all a bit odd considering they were dog **** in the last world cup and have been beaten in their last one-day series by Australia, South Africa and India, but then hysteria is rarely grounded in fact.

 

[marc71178]

One article here and there is not the whole media, is it that hard to understand? Quit the hyperbole.

It's worth noting that the bookmakers, you know that group of people who know what they're talking about, also have England as favourites.

I also guess that AB de Villiers in that article on the front page saying he thinks England must be considered one of the favourites is also wrong as well?

 

[Black_Warrior]

The whole British media has got England as favourites. In regards to evidence to this point, it is not so much a question of trying to find an article in which they are 'favourites', but trying to find an article in which they are not 'favourites' - there is an abundance of riches here, such is the hyperbole. It is all a bit odd considering they were dog **** in the last world cup and have been beaten in their last one-day series by Australia, South Africa and India, but then hysteria is rarely grounded in fact.

Mate I don't think you got the memo. Anything published that is not within the parameters of our worldview, does not exist. It's fake news.

 

[Athlai]

Fake news.

 

[S.Kennedy]

I'm including the majority of the ex-player Sky posse here, most of whom write articles for leading newspapers.

 

[Black_Warrior]

It's clear that people here are arguing very different points.

There's the "England are favourites" viewpoint which is just as valid a viewpoint as someone saying "South Africa are favourites" or "Australia are favourites" and you are free to argue your reasons.

S.Kenney is referring to pundits writing in the media, talking up England's chances which according to him might be overrating the team a little.

Dismissing that point by saying 'which media, I never saw it' is kinda silly. Just because you didn't come across it does not mean they don't exist. Mark Nicholas recently wrote on Cricinfo pitting England as the favourites too.

Mark Nicholas on why England are favourites for the Champions Trophy | Cricket | ESPN Cricinfo

It's okay to discuss articles/opinions published/talked about in the media on this forum.

 

[S.Kennedy]

Here is just one example, albeit it refers to the South African one-day series preceding the Champions' Trophy. S. Africa as you may know won a close-run thing against Northants,

It was only a practice game – the South Africans’ second and last – and their captain, AB de Villiers, was missing with “a slight chest infection”.

Still, the fact that a weakened Northamptonshire were twice competing with the tourists on level terms – and lost by only 13 runs – suggests that England will win the three-match one-day series, which begins on Wednesday afternoon at Headingley.

South Africa struggle over tour hurdle to hand England one-day and Test boost

Big suggestion!

 

[Adders]

Hang on, thats not whats happening at all BW, at least not from my perspective.

Ive never once argued that the media isnt talking the Eng team up to unrealistic heights. My issue with what s kennedy has been posting is over his claims that players are doing the same.

I asked him to post links to articles to back this up......not an unreasonable request imo. And i havent said that they havent been saying this ****......he may well have a point. But just posting here that the whole country is is swept up with an attitude that England have as good as won this competition allready doesnt mean ****......the burden of proof is on him to back this up.

 

[honestbharani]

Well Adders, seeing that Kennedy did say "some" of the media in his original post, I dont think any of the responses about what he quoted as an example were all that sensible. I do agree that he is yet to provide example of where he felt the players in the squad themselves were saying they were favorites.


But honestly, why is it so wrong to consider them favorites anyways? They are a good ODI side at the moment who are on the upswing and the tournament is happening in their own country. I guess most countries' media these days are given to hyperbole and obviously "reasonable favorites" just translates to "overwhelming and obvious favorites" when it gets reported in the media. It would be the same if it was India in this situation.

 

[Adders]

Yeah but what is the point in getting wound up over **** thats written in tabloids? The English press do this all the time to all our sporting teams and have done it forever.

As for the players, sure they should have a degree of confidence......but i wouldnt want to see any ****iness along the lines of what the press are printing. As we all know cricket is a great leveler and ****iness does tend to bite you in the arse.