Any updates on NZ's tour of Oz later this year?

[Skyliner]

I watched the full 1.5 hour Benaud Hadlee special just the other week!

Boon was new. Wessels was a fighter at best. McDermott like I said was starting. Greg Richie? C'mon. Greg Mathews was a bits n pieces bat and not a real threat with the ball (tied test hero and all).

The fat cat was iconic.

 

[hendrix]

Those tests have kept Bird, Bollinger, Pattinson, Starc even Johnson out of the team...

No they haven't.

 

[CaptainGrumpy]

Australia is our benchmark in sport except for Rugby Union I think.

Be it League, Cricket or tiddly winks. As long as we're competing against and beating Australia.

 

[CaptainGrumpy]

No they haven't.

Any reason for this reply?

Perhaps you're going to try and say injuries? But no, Siddle by getting a spot in the team has come at the cost of other players having a spot in the team.

I didn't include Cummins on the list.

Only room for three seamers.

 

[hendrix]

So Neesh batting at 8? Attack Milne, Boult, Neesh and Southee....

That could work... Kane Williamson to play the Murali on 5th day role?.

Yes.

Latham (OBE, QHS, FRCP, FRSC, MVP, FCOTBTITW)
Guptill
Williamson (6)
Taylor
Baz (c)
Corey (5)
Watling (w)
Neesh (4)
Milne (3)
Boult (2)
Southee (1)

 

[CaptainGrumpy]

Yes.

Latham (OBE, QHS, FRCP, FRSC, MVP, FCOTBTITW)
Guptill
Williamson (6)
Taylor
Baz (c)
Corey (5)
Watling (w)
Neesh (4)
Milne (3)
Boult (2)
Southee (1)

Neesh and Corey and still no Craig? Why not Neesh at 6, and Craig at 8? That would give the captain far more options. Craig might be outbatting Corey these days (not quite true). Certainly offers more on the final day than Corey does with the ball.

Are all the letters after Latham demonstrative of the fact you rate him a lot?

 

[hendrix]

Any reason for this reply?

Perhaps you're going to try and say injuries? But no, Siddle by getting a spot in the team has come at the cost of other players having a spot in the team.

I didn't include Cummins on the list.

Only room for three seamers.

When Siddle was playing those tests:

- Bird, Pattinson, Hazlewood etc were about 3 months old and had only just learned how to bowl well at state level
- Bollinger had lost his ability to swing the ball
- Johnson had lost his mojo

He was legitimately Australia's best bowler available at the time. And he did bowl some bloody good, lion-hearted spells of reverse swing when nothing was happening for any other bowler.

 

[hendrix]

and there were a crapload of injuries as well. Pattinson and Cummins could barely last a test.

 

[CaptainGrumpy]

When Siddle was playing those tests:

- Bird, Pattinson, Hazlewood etc were about 3 months old and had only just learned how to bowl well at state level
- Bollinger had lost his ability to swing the ball
- Johnson had lost his mojo

He was legitimately Australia's best bowler available at the time. And he did bowl some bloody good, lion-hearted spells of reverse swing when nothing was happening for any other bowler.

Uh, Siddle has been playing regularly since debut (although 1 test in winter 2011). Bollinger was dropped for slower pace and "fitness", not swing. Johnson lost mojo I agree with. But he still missed tests and Siddle played. Which is my point. And he has prevented them from getting back into the team. Bird has not played for Australia for near 2 years.

 

[CaptainGrumpy]

and there were a crapload of injuries as well. Pattinson and Cummins could barely last a test.

I omitted Cummins from the sample for that very reason. Pattinson could have debut'd earlier, or even been looked to be rushed back into the side post injury.

You left out Starc in your reply.

This is actually a really boring debate.

I prefer talking about NZ v Australia. And not Siddle. (I know I brought him up).

 

[vic_orthdox]

Uh, Siddle has been playing regularly since debut (although 1 test in winter 2011). Bollinger was dropped for slower pace and "fitness", not swing. Johnson lost mojo I agree with. But he still missed tests and Siddle played. Which is my point. And he has prevented them from getting back into the team. Bird has not played for Australia for near 2 years.

Bird hasn't deserved to play for Australia in those two years since.

 

[CaptainGrumpy]

Bird hasn't deserved to play for Australia in those two years since.

Seriously, tell him to move to NZ. We'll give him test matches to play.

And Siddle has deserved to play?

Ugh. All this Siddle talk is boring me. My bad. I shouldn't have brought him up.

Let alone run into a NSW v Victoria player for Australia debate.

NZ'ers do not share the same parochialism for pushing its domestic players into national teams, and jeering at the other domestic players selected for national honours who are not ATG. Cantabrians excluded.

 

[vic_orthdox]

There's currency in being durable. Incumbency for one.

 

[CaptainGrumpy]

There's currency in being durable. Incumbency for one.

Well then, that goes entirely against how Skyliner put us on this topic. His point of view was that Australia are ruthless in selecting the best team (possibly even if they may get injured), not looking after the incumbents.

 

[kiwiviktor81]

There must be some reason why Aussie can produce legions of guys able to sling the ball down at 150 for years without so much as a niggle, whereas if a New Zealander breaks the 150km/h barrier he pretty much instantly becomes a cripple.

 

[Dan]

Let alone run into a NSW v Victoria player for Australia debate.

NZ'ers do not share the same parochialism for pushing its domestic players into national teams, and jeering at the other domestic players selected for national honours who are not ATG. Cantabrians excluded.

What does this have to do with anything? I mean, Bird's a top-class bowler, but his back simply hasn't let him string games together since he last played. He's been good when he's played, certainly, but if Bird can't prove himself fit (let alone stay on the park once he gets there), it's not like he can feel hard done by that Siddle has been playing ahead of him (though he can certainly consider himself unlucky that he keeps re-injuring himself).

Siddle was basically the epitome of a transition bowler. Served his country admirably, but I think even he recognises that his time is more-or-less up as a Test regular.

 

[CaptainGrumpy]

There must be some reason why Aussie can produce legions of guys able to sling the ball down at 150 for years without so much as a niggle, whereas if a New Zealander breaks the 150km/h barrier he pretty much instantly becomes a cripple.

They get niggles and injuries. Pattinson and Cummins are prime current examples.

I seriously think it is a lot to do with their coaching and sporting institutes. They are the best in the world. They identify talent young, analyse what could go wrong, and take proactive steps to prevent it occuring, as well as very smart reactive steps if they do break down. NZ does not produce that many speedsters, so when there is one, there isn't a lot of knowledge on what to do to improve them against injury. Sure all bowlers get injured, and can be re mediated, but how do you do it without losing the extra pace that the bowler has? Bond's wealth of bowling knowledge is a huge loss to NZ. NZ bowlers seem left to work things out for themselves. Hamish Bennett rejinked his action after debuting for NZ to put less stress on the body. Took him "years" to figure out a particular problem and redress it. He praises the likes of Donald and Bond. We need more fast bowling knowledge in our coaching ranks. That will help a tremendous amount.

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/sport/news/article.cfm?c_id=4&objectid=11172716

Also, http://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/cricket/9634623/Wired-up-Hamish-Bennett-glad-to-be-back-in-fold

A key factor is the age of 24. That's when bones are fully developed and strong. Bowling fast before that age, puts the body at excessive stress. Hopefully that has been Milne's problem. That said, Bond debut'd at 26.

I am not sure why we cannot produce some more fast seam bowlers with 'slingy' actions.

 

[Skyliner]

Well then, that goes entirely against how Skyliner put us on this topic. His point of view was that Australia are ruthless in selecting the best team (possibly even if they may get injured), not looking after the incumbents.

No, they are ruthless about selecting guys who can do the job. A poster mentioned 'lionhearted' as regards Siddle, and that's exactly how they view him. Hendrix's point was that injuries and inconsistencies as regards other bowlers had enhanced Siddle's standing - his niche was in being the durable, mr consistent rock in their attack. The fact that he has now lost his place in the starting line-up shows that the Aussies don't pick on sentiment.
Haddin was punted, they brought in Wade. He couldn't keep wicket to a high enough standard despite scoring runs, and they decided they needed more experience in the side, they punted Wade and brought back Haddin. No worrying about how the players ego's are effected or the internal politics of the side.
In elite sports teams, the players understand that constantly winning is expected and winning is everything and expect to be chopped as soon as the selectors deem it necessary.

 

[Immenso]

Grimmet was more daft NZ selection shenanigans. He couldn't get anywhere here, the Aussies would have seen him for the weapon he was, and the rest is history. Aussie selections are based on 'you don't cut it, you're gone, no sentiment; but we'll give you the chance'. Ruthless but born out of the desire, the need, to win. And it works.

WTF? Grimmet emigrated before NZ gained test status. He was a 1920s version of Hick - except good and about 15 years older.

Selection shenanigans? #WhiteOut

 

[Flem274*]

Yes.

Latham (OBE, QHS, FRCP, FRSC, MVP, FCOTBTITW)
Guptill
Williamson (6)
Taylor
Baz (c)
Corey (5)
Watling (w)
Neesh (4)
Milne (3)
Boult (2)
Southee (1)

God please not that attack.