Andy Roberts vs Courtney Walsh

[PlayerComparisons]

Who is the fifth greatest West Indian bowler after Marshall, Ambrose, Garner, and Holding?

 

[Nikhil99.99]

Roberts

 

[Burgey]

Yeah I think that's probably right tbh. Sort of the godfather of the 80s & 90s generation of quicks. Walsh also a gun though, obviously

 

[subshakerz]

Roberts was ranked as the best by some ATGs of the 70s and 80s. Walsh is not quite there.

 

[h_hurricane]

Walsh for me. Immense longevity and the most under-rated among 90s great bowlers.

 

[Xuhaib]

At what numbers skills overtakes longevity in player comparisons

Is 200 wickets and 5k runs the cut off point?

 

[Burgey]

I don't think there is a set number. It really just comes down to which player you prefer, and depending on the outcome of that question you'll either say longevity is really important, or say it doesn't really matter.

 

[h_hurricane]

At what numbers skills overtakes longevity in player comparisons

Is 200 wickets and 5k runs the cut off point?

I would say this is a good cut off to say that players (in modern era) have passed the longevity cutoff test, but doing it incrementally is even more difficult. Hence players like Walsh who have done it, pass the test even more.

Though not to be taken literally (as it depends on variety of conditions and challenges each player goes through), I would say somewhere along the lines of the below.

200@24 ~ 300@24.5 ~ 400@24.8 ~ 500@25.0 ~ 600@25.1

 

[Red]

Roberts > Holding

 

[Starfighter]

Roberts. Yeah Walsh actually probably was slightly more effective (or at least consistent), but I'd rather watch Roberts over almost any other bowler.

 

[subshakerz]

Their numbers seem similar but Roberts strikes me as a better bowler than his numbers reflect while Walsh was pretty much as good as his numbers show. Lillee and Gavaskar rate Roberts as the best of their era.

 

[wpdavid]

Those of us who were around at the time remember the impact of Roberts as he was the first of that generation of WI quicks, which means that he made more of an impression. By the time Walsh came along, he was just another very good WI quick bowler and we'd seen quite a few by then. Now that isn't an entirely objective way to decide these things, but these things rarely are. I read somewhere that Roberts was never quite the same after being over-bowled in WSC, but I don't know how accurate that is.

As an aside, does anyone fancy comparing Wes Hall to the later generation of WI quicks?

 

[Coronis]

Eh I voted for Roberts, purely cos he’s got a much better rate of five-fers (I know, partially because he began his career with meh bowlers, but still). Comparing 2 bowlers with similar stats, I’d personally prefer the one who’s more likely to run through a team.

 

[shortpitched713]

As an aside, does anyone fancy comparing Wes Hall to the later generation of WI quicks?

I would love if someone could do that. I've seen the footage of Hall, and he looks an absolute gun. To me absolutely fits in with the best from the heyday of West Indies pace quartets. Not sure if any old folks remember him, or what the contemporaneous journalists wrote about him.

 

[Burgey]

I would love if someone could do that. I've seen the footage of Hall, and he looks an absolute gun. To me absolutely fits in with the best from the heyday of West Indies pace quartets. Not sure if any old folks remember him, or what the contemporaneous journalists wrote about him.

Ping @JBMAC

 

[Anil]

roberts certainly more destructive than walsh...had the most fearsome, effective bouncers you could hope to see in a fast bowler...

 

[wpdavid]

roberts certainly more destructive than walsh...had the most fearsome, effective bouncers you could hope to see in a fast bowler...

He varied the speed of his bouncers didn't he? The first one was a relatively slow sighter, which a good batsman could help on its way. The second one much faster, often resulting in the batman being helped on his way back to the changing room.

 

[Anil]

He varied the speed of his bouncers didn't he? The first one was a relatively slow sighter, which a good batsman could help on its way. The second one much faster, often resulting in the batman being helped on his way back to the changing room.

yep, he used the two-tiered bouncer approach to very good effect...

 

[BazBall21]

Tend to lean to Roberts in this comparison but Walsh certainly has a decent case.
Rate the Wes Hall love a bit further up in the chat. I think he was the first of the great West Indian fast bowlers but Roberts was the first in the professional era when fast bowling really took off.

 

[Starfighter]

I would love if someone could do that. I've seen the footage of Hall, and he looks an absolute gun. To me absolutely fits in with the best from the heyday of West Indies pace quartets. Not sure if any old folks remember him, or what the contemporaneous journalists wrote about him.

Hall is an interesting figure. Tremendous looking bowler. Beautiful action, obviously very quick, good swing bowler too. Yet his reputation perhaps oversells his effectiveness, albeit with the caveat that sixties pitches sucked. He averaged over 30 in the 1960s and was basically done as an effective bowler at only 29.
I personally think he could have done significantly better if you transplanted him into the seventies and eighties, but hard not to conclude his reputation is a little bit bigger than what his results show.