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Andrew Symonds is at fault himself

honestbharani

Whatever it takes!!!
Then the discussion is a question of definition. Racism is, at it's most simple, viewing a difference on the basis of a person's race, which absolutely occurs in every society. Racism (much like the whole concept of "race") is a fluid idea, rather than a definitive one. The word may have had an added perjorative connotation added in some societies, but it exists as a part of the human race.

I would certainly concede that there has never been mass racial lynchings or anything of the sort in India, but that doesn't preclude the existence of racism completely. In different societies it exists in different forms and in different magnitudes- but it still exists.

yep. Exactly. The way I define racism (and it is based on what I have learned in school and stuff), it doesn't exist in India. But as you said, if you take a more macroscopic view and include lots of other things to the definition of racism, yes, THAT does exist in India. Maybe I should not have been so pedantic about it, but sst does get one's nerves. Sorry. :)



The caste system is merely a more ingrained, documented and regimented form of classism. They are, at their core, the same basic idea.

For some reason, humanity seems to need to find a way to classify each other and differentiate between each other. Sometimes this is closer to the surface than in other cases, but the basic need is the same. Frankly, my sociological view is that classism and racism (as well as the majority of other points of discrimination that different societies have found throughout history) come from the same base instinct, and thus are directly comparable.
yeah, agree with that. Again, it is just definitions that we are talking about here.



I haven't seen any report of Ponting or Symonds complaining about being booed- the only complaints that I have seen have concerned the racial issue. I am certainly not doubting you, but I haven't seen those reports myself. If they did complain about being booed, then they are being far too precious. Visiting teams (and often the home teams t'boot) get booed- that is a reality that they have to face.

I think Ponting and/or Symonds said something like "The crowd behaviour at the end and during the presentation was disappointing" or something like that. I did watch the end of the game and the presentation and it was obvious that Symonds was getting very very heavily booed, but that was about it. I read it somewhere and I am outside right now, so can't search now. If I find it, I will link you to it.



Again, it is a matter of degree. Saying racist things is racist. It may not be on the same scale as hanging a black man from a tree, but it is still racist.



Racial taunting is far more heinous than drunkards yelling "no ball". One is abhorrent, one is not. To compare the two (and, if you are not talking about the "no ball" chants, then I apologise) is disingenuous.

The no ball chant alone may not matter, but the stuff added to it can matter to an individual person. I agree it may not be as offensive as a racist taunt, speaking wholistically,but for the individual person, it may affect him emotionally just as much as a racist taunt. My view is, beyond a certain point, crowds should not be allowed to yell out stuff which can emotionally affect a sportsman... Whether it be calling Symonds a monkey, or calling Murali a cheat, or making fun of Gilly about his wife or making fun of Shane Warne's failed marriage......




I read the story that you linked to, and I stand by my first comment regarding the BCCI. I agree that the first case was probably not racist, but the second two instances certainly were.



I should have made it clear in my first post, but I certainly wasn't attributing every point toward you- I was commenting on different points in the thread made by various posters. I should have attributed quotes, but as I said I am phenomenonally lazy, particularly when it comes to message board posting. My apologies if you thought I was directing all of that at you personally.

No, no, no need to apologize mate. I knew it wasn't all directed at me, but I felt like replying to your post, because unlike with sst, here it is at least an actual rational discussion and I am also learning something from you, as I hope you may from me, from this discussion. :)

And the reason I linked you to that story was because there they have mentioned that one Australian daily has admitted that the story about them capturing some racist taunts on camera was not true.



I'll try to find it. No promises, though, as I hate searching for stuff on the internet when I'm not getting paid for it (lord knows I do enough of it when I am getting paid). If I find it in my travels, I'll be sure to post it. Sorry to be so vague- now you know why I rarely post.

The photo was a still of a section of the crowd, with a few people scratching their underarms (in the typical "monkey" pose). It was pretty obvious what they were doing. I believe the photo was taken in Mumbai.

Oh, then yeah, I do think I have seen it and obviously those guys were evicted as well. I had thought you said that cricinfo posted a picture from Vadodara or something, which is what one Australian daily claimed and have later denied.



Speed is a knob. He likes taking shots at EVERYBODY. I think it makes him feel potent.

I agree totally, by the way. Cricket administration has been incredibly poor for a long time, and I certainly don't expect any better. Low expectations don't mean that they aren't worthy of criticism, though.

Not at all, but it is honestly fruitless to expect these guys to do anything constructive. Today the CA have said that they are happy with what the BCCI have done. TBH, I do think the BCCI have been a little more active on this than I expected them to be (or maybe it was just the Mumbai police), but even if the BCCI did nothing and said nothing happened and that it was all a misunderstanding by Symonds, you think CA would have done anything different? We may as well expect Sreesanth to applaud a good shot from a batsman... ;)



I think it sums up the collective mentality of the internet quite succinctly, no?

Anyway, good show. I enjoy discussing things with reasonable people, as you obviously are.

Thanks a lot. :) That feeling is mutual, btw. :)
 

honestbharani

Whatever it takes!!!
I thought the 'Murali's too precious' comments related to him not coming here because people still say stuff about his action.
nah, not with a couple of posters here. It was them I was talking about. They said that Murali mentioning or complaing about fans behaviour down under was him being "too precious"....
 

Son Of Coco

Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
nah, not with a couple of posters here. It was them I was talking about. They said that Murali mentioning or complaing about fans behaviour down under was him being "too precious"....
Ahhh, ok. I musn't have been around at that time.

I've seen pics of people in the crowd out here wearing stuff that I thought should have seen them thrown out, which is pretty ordinary.
 

honestbharani

Whatever it takes!!!
This isn't a fact...
It is but I have explained it a no. of times in this thread and so has Bracken in his posts. What I define to be "Racism", not it doesn't exist in India.... But if you include stuff like thinking "fairer skin = beauty" etc as part of your definition of racism, then I accept, racism does exist in India. Maybe the guys who are calling it "soft-racism" or "passive-racism" are right on this issue.
 

honestbharani

Whatever it takes!!!
And neither is this...these are your opinions, just like it's my opinion that Sreesanth has been the biggest jerk on the tour.
I agree that Sreesanth has been the biggest jerk as well. Must have said the biggest jerk from the Aussie side. Sree has beaten Symonds to that honour when he tried that joke of a run out appeal, even though Symonds has been trying to get back in the lead very hard since then, I am afraid Sree is still leading. ;)
 

Craig

World Traveller
Some clown in the local paper, in the sports stage said, his team of the week, which included Andrew Symonds which to quote the writer Michael Westlake: "Continues to stand tall as a storm that is not of his making raging around him. Can anyone explain how an Australian umpire calling a bowler with a suspect action is racist but spectators scratching their armpits like Magilla Gorilla are not? Wake up, India".

Bear in mind the sports editors can be very pro-Queenslander.
 

Bracken

U19 Debutant
I think Ponting and/or Symonds said something like "The crowd behaviour at the end and during the presentation was disappointing" or something like that. I did watch the end of the game and the presentation and it was obvious that Symonds was getting very very heavily booed, but that was about it. I read it somewhere and I am outside right now, so can't search now. If I find it, I will link you to it.
Fair enough. If so, then they are definitely being a bit unrealistic.


The no ball chant alone may not matter, but the stuff added to it can matter to an individual person. I agree it may not be as offensive as a racist taunt, speaking wholistically,but for the individual person, it may affect him emotionally just as much as a racist taunt. My view is, beyond a certain point, crowds should not be allowed to yell out stuff which can emotionally affect a sportsman... Whether it be calling Symonds a monkey, or calling Murali a cheat, or making fun of Gilly about his wife or making fun of Shane Warne's failed marriage......
I would suggest that Gilchrist found the best way to respond to it. Use it as an inspiration to perform out of your skin, and the comments soon stop.

No, no, no need to apologize mate. I knew it wasn't all directed at me, but I felt like replying to your post, because unlike with sst, here it is at least an actual rational discussion and I am also learning something from you, as I hope you may from me, from this discussion.
Trust me- I can be irrational and argumentative as well. I just try and temper it with a bit of wit. Works wonders...

Not at all, but it is honestly fruitless to expect these guys to do anything constructive. Today the CA have said that they are happy with what the BCCI have done. TBH, I do think the BCCI have been a little more active on this than I expected them to be (or maybe it was just the Mumbai police), but even if the BCCI did nothing and said nothing happened and that it was all a misunderstanding by Symonds, you think CA would have done anything different? We may as well expect Sreesanth to applaud a good shot from a batsman...
Actually, as much as I criticise CA, I think that CA WOULD have been more proactive if the roles were reversed. Not because of any particularly noble or moral reason, mind- more because the political ramifications of a predominantly white nation inflicting racism on a predominantly coloured one would have demanded it more. As shameful as the notion is, there is a train of thought in some that racism towards coloured races is more offensive than racism towards "white" people, as some in this very thread have confirmed.

The backlash around the world from CA being dismissive toward racism directed at a country associated with the more traditional victims of racism would have been MUCH greater than that experienced by the BCCI in this case. That political repercussions would have precluded CA from the same sort of minimalist response.

It is but I have explained it a no. of times in this thread and so has Bracken in his posts. What I define to be "Racism", not it doesn't exist in India.... But if you include stuff like thinking "fairer skin = beauty" etc as part of your definition of racism, then I accept, racism does exist in India. Maybe the guys who are calling it "soft-racism" or "passive-racism" are right on this issue.
I have to say, I don't know if I'd use the term "soft-racism". Racism as a notion is not something I'd ever trivialise as "soft", regardless of the relative magnitude. I realise that your intention is nothing of the sort, but I'd suggest that it is probably an unfortunate choice of words.

To clarify, though, I certainly think that there is a greater incidence of racism in India than simply a judgment of aesthetics. The distinction that I would draw is that racism has been far less institutionalised in Indian society than in western cultures, predominantly because caste was used to pigeonhole different groups rather than race.

But I realise where your thought process is on this, and I'm sure you know mine. I won't labour the point- at least, no more than I already have.

And I missed this one earlier:

Hard to extend a welcome to someone who's been here for 10 months, really (and I know he has been here even if he hasn't posted much, because I've seen the blighter reading the forum countless times) but I do rather wish he'd post a bit more. Only on the serious scandals that he pokes his head above the parapet.
Hey- don't you be stealing my welcomes, sir.

Heh. Nah, I generally only comment on the more controversial stuff because I have a serious dislike of the trivial. I mean, you won't often see me get into a barney over who the best bowler in history or who is a better batsman than who- particularly on a message board.

They are just fruitless arguments. Aside from the fact that the criteria for making those sorts of judgments are so completely subjective to preclude any sort of resolution, the rampant nationalism that invariably infests those sort of threads annoys me.

The fact that these judgments are so rarely cut and dried is undoubtedly part of the beauty of the game, but the endless circular discussions are entirely frustrating to me- especially when some of the participants in those discussions don't seem to realise how subjective they actually are.
 

Son Of Coco

Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
I agree that Sreesanth has been the biggest jerk as well. Must have said the biggest jerk from the Aussie side. Sree has beaten Symonds to that honour when he tried that joke of a run out appeal, even though Symonds has been trying to get back in the lead very hard since then, I am afraid Sree is still leading. ;)
:laugh:

Sreesanth had two games break, so maybe you're right. It's a close call.
 

Richard

Cricket Web Staff Member
And I missed this one earlier:

Hey- don't you be stealing my welcomes, sir.

Heh. Nah, I generally only comment on the more controversial stuff because I have a serious dislike of the trivial. I mean, you won't often see me get into a barney over who the best bowler in history or who is a better batsman than who- particularly on a message board.

They are just fruitless arguments. Aside from the fact that the criteria for making those sorts of judgments are so completely subjective to preclude any sort of resolution, the rampant nationalism that invariably infests those sort of threads annoys me.

The fact that these judgments are so rarely cut and dried is undoubtedly part of the beauty of the game, but the endless circular discussions are entirely frustrating to me- especially when some of the participants in those discussions don't seem to realise how subjective they actually are.
Haha. You're not far off. TBH, though, those sorts of threads are less than they're more on CW. The overwhelming majority of threads concern current stuff.
 

pasag

RTDAS
Hey- don't you be stealing my welcomes, sir.

Heh. Nah, I generally only comment on the more controversial stuff because I have a serious dislike of the trivial. I mean, you won't often see me get into a barney over who the best bowler in history or who is a better batsman than who- particularly on a message board.

They are just fruitless arguments. Aside from the fact that the criteria for making those sorts of judgments are so completely subjective to preclude any sort of resolution, the rampant nationalism that invariably infests those sort of threads annoys me.

The fact that these judgments are so rarely cut and dried is undoubtedly part of the beauty of the game, but the endless circular discussions are entirely frustrating to me- especially when some of the participants in those discussions don't seem to realise how subjective they actually are.
As long as they aren't long winded, vindictive and not arguments but more discussion type things then they're great, but when it becomes a pissing contest or stat exercises, then they get very tiresome very quickly.
 

SJS

Hall of Fame Member
No more monkeying around
Soumya Bhattacharya
October 20, 2007
The Sunday Morning Herald
Hindustan Times
22nd Oct 2007

The photograph sealed it. Published in the Herald on Thursday, it shows an animated section of the crowd, all Indians, at the one-day game between India and Australia in Mumbai the day before.

Your eye is automatically drawn to a stocky-running-to-fat man near the centre of the frame. He is wearing a blue T-shirt with black sleeves. His cheeks are puffed out as he blows hard on - it seems - a whistle. His raised arms are bent at the elbows. His fingers are crooked, turned downward, somewhat like a fist held back from being clenched; his thumbs are splayed on either side. He has, it seems from the picture, put a lot of effort into his posture.

In the foreground is another man - younger, in a T-shirt, glasses and a baseball cap - who seems to have picked up the cue. He too has his arms bent at the elbow. His approximation of a monkey is not quite as mimetic as that of the man behind, but he is smiling and chanting. You cannot tell for sure from a photograph, but it is fair to guess that it is a monkey chant.

All of this is directed at the Australian cricketer Andrew Symonds (not in the frame but bearing this disgraceful insult with dignity and admirable self-restraint).

Pictures do not lie; the evidence is incontrovertible. Symonds was taunted by spectators during Australia 's tour of India.

We need to pick up the story where it started: in the small, western Indian town of Vadodara. On October 11, during a one-day match, a section of the crowd taunted Symonds with monkey chants.

The Australian team did not lodge a formal complaint. Ricky Ponting, the captain, said afterwards: "I know the match referee [Chris Broad of England] knows about this. He has got the chance to write about what happened on match day [in his report]. If the International Cricket Council gets it in his report, they have got something to do about it."

The Vadodara police denied that Symonds had been racially abused. They denied he had been abused at all. They said that the crowd was chanting hymns to the elephant-god Ganesha (whose festival, recently concluded, is the most protracted, popular, colourful and defining festival in western India). The police insisted that Symonds, because he could not understand what they were saying, thought it was abuse.

There has not been a more ridiculous explanation of anything this year, or in many years. Within a week came the incident in Mumbai, the cosmopolitan, contradictory and financial heart of India. Then came the picture. The picture told the story. And the story began to consume India in a way that it had not in the previous seven days.

The Board of Control for Cricket in India and Cricket Australia, both under fire for the manner in which they had handled the matter (India by being in denial; the Australians for not having reported the incident), came out with a joint statement.

"Players of all countries have a right to expect they will be treated with respect wherever they play in the world," the statement said. " … All cricket nations have to be on guard to ensure that the fun [of watching the game] does not cross the boundary into unacceptable behaviour. If it does, it is our expectation that the ICC Anti-Racism Code be enforced without fear or favour."

Yesterday the Hindustan Times, one of India's best-known English-language dailies with a circulation of over a million copies, ran the picture on its front page. The blogs were incandescent - with anger and with fear of reprisal when India travels to Australia for a cricket tour later this year.

The sense of outrage had taken a while to sink in. But now that it has, it is full-blown and spectacular.

India has traditionally had the worst crowds at cricket stadiums. They tend to turn hostile whenever things are not going too well for the home side. They can get ugly and violent and have been known to stop games, to set stadiums alight.

At Eden Gardens in Kolkata in February 1999 an India-Pakistan Test had to be played in front of near-empty stands because Pakistan players felt they had been in danger from a section of the audience, which had been hurling whatever they could find at hand - bottles, fruits, bits of broken concrete - as India faced defeat. It was shameful.

However, we were all implicated. I was not one of those who broke off and threw slabs of concrete onto the pitch. But that did not make things any better. As a matter of fact, it made it worse. I was there. I did not, so to speak, do anything. Not doing anything was tantamount to doing something; my passivity implicated me. There was no way in which I could shrug off the taint of that particular brotherhood.

I have been feeling like that ever since the Symonds incident.

But the people who do this sort of thing at cricket grounds are notrepresentative of India, a country where it is doubly crucial to be aware of - and steer clear of - stereotypes. Stereotypes about India not so much abound as multiply. In popular imagination, India has gone from being the land of exoticism and mysticism to the back office of the world to - most recently - the rising economic superpower whose dizzying rate of growth is second only to China's and which will redraw the geopolitical map of the world by the middle of the 21st century.

The ugly fan is another stereotype. And, like all stereotypes, he is not entirely representative of the reality.

India is not the only country that has ugly fans. In January 2004, when the Indian cricket team toured Australia, I was at the Sydney Cricket Ground for the final Test. I remember being hooted at and roughly pushed aside in the members' stand by a couple of beered-up, middle-aged Australians. I nearly fell, breaking the fall with my shin against a seat.

Why did they do it? Because I was standing in the wrong place? Because I looked smaller than them? Because I was not white? Because India seemed to running away with the match? I don't know. But no sooner than it happened, a couple of other Australians came to help and suggested that I give it back to my aggressors.

On the same tour, Sambit Bal, an Indian and the editor of cricnifo.com, was wandering around near the grassy hill at the Adelaide oval. Two men, drunk, threw him a chicken bone and called out: "Eat it, coolie."

I asked Bal what he remembered of the incident.

"They were obnoxious, they were drunk, and they were aberrations," he told me. "And they didn't reflect my experiences in Australia as a whole. On the whole, people were friendly and helpful. Why should I let two drunks colour my perception of a country?"

(Reports of this incident - and scathing indictments of racist Australian fans - appeared in the Australian papers at the time.)

The lunatic fringe that indulges in this sort of reprehensible behaviour is just that: the lunatic fringe. It should not define a country and its notions of and response to race, colour and common human decency.It is indisputable that the Indians who taunted Symonds did something disgraceful and unpardonable. But was it a racist taunt? Given that this is India, a diverse, non-white country fraught with an inimitable set of complexities, the dynamics at work are very different; the answer cannot be in either black or white.

The template of racism (and of racial abuse) in India is different from what it is in Australia - or the United Kingdom and United States. Indians have always had a weakness for fairness. But the festishisation of white skin in a predominantly brown-skinned country comes inextricably entwined with an irreconcilable sense of contradiction and an often-unconscious notion of self-loathing.

Creams and lotions that claim to lighten the tone of one's skin has become a multi-billion-rupee industry in India. A new cream launched last year - said to be made exclusively for men and guaranteeing that it would turn them fair - made $20 million for the company that produced it.

In India fair equates with pretty, handsome and attractive. People not seen to be fair have invited ridicule in charged moments - and not merely on a cricket field. "Kaaliya (blackie/darkie)," the chant goes. The South African cricketer Makhaya Ntini will know this. As will African students on the streets of Mumbai.

Very often, though, it is not so much a term of ridicule as a bald statement of fact. I grew up in a middle-class, educated Bengali household in Kolkata. No one thought much about describing my complexion in Bengali as Moila (literally translated as "dirty"); the term was uttered with unselfconsciousness, if with a bit of regret. With Symonds, though, it goes beyond that.

Besides, we are great ones for conformity. Bal remembers how Lasith Malinga, the Sri Lankan cricketer with streaked hair, a decided swagger and a sling-arm action, faced boorish behaviour when he played in India. And Symonds, with his braids and zinc cream, looks to the uninformed lunatic fringe to be not so much non-white as different. For their purposes, it did not help that he nearly single-handedly annihilated India in the one-day series.

So where do the monkey chants come in? They do not traditionally belong to the Indian sports fans' lexicon - or repository of abuse. Nor do such chants have the connotations that they would have for, say, a football fan in Europe. That is to say, they do not have the same resonance of racism. They exist as something that is meant to be derisive and contemptuous - and shockingly so. "Monkey" in any Indian language is a common term of abuse, suggesting annoying or stupid. I am not so sure it was a reference to Symonds's West Indian origins.

The man and his imitators in the picture, who riled Symonds with their ape-like gestures, and those in Vadodara from whom he might stupidly have picked it up, are contemptible, reprehensible, insensitive, uninformed and inexcusable.

They need to be told that. They ought to be outed. They must be punished.

The increased security and the closed-circuit cameras that will be trained on the crowd for today's Twenty20 match between India and Australia is a start. They'll be seen behaving incorrigibly - if they do. And there should be no pardon. But India as a country tends to pretend that they are not worth making a fuss about - that this is not worth making a fuss about. That must change. For India's own good, and for that of those who come to visit us. The new, globalised world order demands it. Hard soul-searching, unforgiving self-introspection and that natural accommodation of difference is what we cannot afford to do without.

Otherwise, the stereotype of India as a superpower that alters the geopolitical map of the world in the 21st century will remain merely that: a stereotype. And not entirely representative of reality.​
 
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SJS

Hall of Fame Member
Coloured vision
Hindustan Times Editorial
22nd Oct 2007​

Just as it is not cricket when racism invades the pitch, it isn’t cricket either when the R word creeps into the stands. The flap over Australian cricketer Andrew Symonds being subjected to racist taunts by sections of the crowd in Vadodara and Mumbai underlines this. The only non-white, Afro-Caribbean member of the Australian side, Mr Symonds had seemed unstoppable on the pitch throughout the Future Cup ODI series, choosing to let his explosive batting do most of the talking. But in the last two ODIs in Vadodara and Mumbai, spectators heckled him, calling him a monkey and taunting him with ape-like motions. It goes to Symonds’s credit that he remained unflappable in the face of such provocative crowd behaviour and let the team management handle it without lodging an official complaint.
Never mind if the BCCI’s response left much to be desired, the way it initially tried to paper over the issue. Board officials even suggested that the Australians misunderstood the crowd’s gestures. Such hostility wasn’t totally unexpected from the Wankhede crowd that booed hometown star, Sachin Tendulkar, during the Test against England in April last year. But that’s still no excuse for the kind of boorishness on display during the ODI. Any more abuse would probably put the stadium’s status as an international venue in doubt, given the ICC’s policy of stripping offending grounds of their elite status. Indian fans should acknowledge that racism by any other name is still racism and it isn’t just about caucasians mocking coloured people. Wasn’t the great New Zealand all rounder Sir Richard Hadlee insulted and teased in Australia every time he toured?

Cricket is not quite bridge and no one minds spectators making a bit of noise. But when people start making racist — or, for that matter, religion-based — comments they cross the limits of acceptable behaviour. As with any sport, there should be zero-tolerance for racism in cricket and the BCCI would do well to ensure better crowd control, perhaps with the help of cameras to spot and eject offenders.​
 

Richard

Cricket Web Staff Member
No more monkeying around
Soumya Bhattacharya
October 20, 2007
The Sunday Morning Herald
Hindustan Times
22nd Oct 2007

The photograph sealed it. Published in the Herald on Thursday, it shows an animated section of the crowd, all Indians, at the one-day game between India and Australia in Mumbai the day before.

Your eye is automatically drawn to a stocky-running-to-fat man near the centre of the frame. He is wearing a blue T-shirt with black sleeves. His cheeks are puffed out as he blows hard on - it seems - a whistle. His raised arms are bent at the elbows. His fingers are crooked, turned downward, somewhat like a fist held back from being clenched; his thumbs are splayed on either side. He has, it seems from the picture, put a lot of effort into his posture.

In the foreground is another man - younger, in a T-shirt, glasses and a baseball cap - who seems to have picked up the cue. He too has his arms bent at the elbow. His approximation of a monkey is not quite as mimetic as that of the man behind, but he is smiling and chanting. You cannot tell for sure from a photograph, but it is fair to guess that it is a monkey chant.

All of this is directed at the Australian cricketer Andrew Symonds (not in the frame but bearing this disgraceful insult with dignity and admirable self-restraint).

Pictures do not lie; the evidence is incontrovertible. Symonds was taunted by spectators during Australia 's tour of India.

We need to pick up the story where it started: in the small, western Indian town of Vadodara. On October 11, during a one-day match, a section of the crowd taunted Symonds with monkey chants.

The Australian team did not lodge a formal complaint. Ricky Ponting, the captain, said afterwards: "I know the match referee [Chris Broad of England] knows about this. He has got the chance to write about what happened on match day [in his report]. If the International Cricket Council gets it in his report, they have got something to do about it."

The Vadodara police denied that Symonds had been racially abused. They denied he had been abused at all. They said that the crowd was chanting hymns to the elephant-god Ganesha (whose festival, recently concluded, is the most protracted, popular, colourful and defining festival in western India). The police insisted that Symonds, because he could not understand what they were saying, thought it was abuse.

There has not been a more ridiculous explanation of anything this year, or in many years. Within a week came the incident in Mumbai, the cosmopolitan, contradictory and financial heart of India. Then came the picture. The picture told the story. And the story began to consume India in a way that it had not in the previous seven days.

The Board of Control for Cricket in India and Cricket Australia, both under fire for the manner in which they had handled the matter (India by being in denial; the Australians for not having reported the incident), came out with a joint statement.

"Players of all countries have a right to expect they will be treated with respect wherever they play in the world," the statement said. " … All cricket nations have to be on guard to ensure that the fun [of watching the game] does not cross the boundary into unacceptable behaviour. If it does, it is our expectation that the ICC Anti-Racism Code be enforced without fear or favour."

Yesterday the Hindustan Times, one of India's best-known English-language dailies with a circulation of over a million copies, ran the picture on its front page. The blogs were incandescent - with anger and with fear of reprisal when India travels to Australia for a cricket tour later this year.

The sense of outrage had taken a while to sink in. But now that it has, it is full-blown and spectacular.

India has traditionally had the worst crowds at cricket stadiums. They tend to turn hostile whenever things are not going too well for the home side. They can get ugly and violent and have been known to stop games, to set stadiums alight.

At Eden Gardens in Kolkata in February 1999 an India-Pakistan Test had to be played in front of near-empty stands because Pakistan players felt they had been in danger from a section of the audience, which had been hurling whatever they could find at hand - bottles, fruits, bits of broken concrete - as India faced defeat. It was shameful.

However, we were all implicated. I was not one of those who broke off and threw slabs of concrete onto the pitch. But that did not make things any better. As a matter of fact, it made it worse. I was there. I did not, so to speak, do anything. Not doing anything was tantamount to doing something; my passivity implicated me. There was no way in which I could shrug off the taint of that particular brotherhood.

I have been feeling like that ever since the Symonds incident.

But the people who do this sort of thing at cricket grounds are notrepresentative of India, a country where it is doubly crucial to be aware of - and steer clear of - stereotypes. Stereotypes about India not so much abound as multiply. In popular imagination, India has gone from being the land of exoticism and mysticism to the back office of the world to - most recently - the rising economic superpower whose dizzying rate of growth is second only to China's and which will redraw the geopolitical map of the world by the middle of the 21st century.

The ugly fan is another stereotype. And, like all stereotypes, he is not entirely representative of the reality.

India is not the only country that has ugly fans. In January 2004, when the Indian cricket team toured Australia, I was at the Sydney Cricket Ground for the final Test. I remember being hooted at and roughly pushed aside in the members' stand by a couple of beered-up, middle-aged Australians. I nearly fell, breaking the fall with my shin against a seat.

Why did they do it? Because I was standing in the wrong place? Because I looked smaller than them? Because I was not white? Because India seemed to running away with the match? I don't know. But no sooner than it happened, a couple of other Australians came to help and suggested that I give it back to my aggressors.

On the same tour, Sambit Bal, an Indian and the editor of cricnifo.com, was wandering around near the grassy hill at the Adelaide oval. Two men, drunk, threw him a chicken bone and called out: "Eat it, coolie."

I asked Bal what he remembered of the incident.

"They were obnoxious, they were drunk, and they were aberrations," he told me. "And they didn't reflect my experiences in Australia as a whole. On the whole, people were friendly and helpful. Why should I let two drunks colour my perception of a country?"

(Reports of this incident - and scathing indictments of racist Australian fans - appeared in the Australian papers at the time.)

The lunatic fringe that indulges in this sort of reprehensible behaviour is just that: the lunatic fringe. It should not define a country and its notions of and response to race, colour and common human decency.It is indisputable that the Indians who taunted Symonds did something disgraceful and unpardonable. But was it a racist taunt? Given that this is India, a diverse, non-white country fraught with an inimitable set of complexities, the dynamics at work are very different; the answer cannot be in either black or white.

The template of racism (and of racial abuse) in India is different from what it is in Australia - or the United Kingdom and United States. Indians have always had a weakness for fairness. But the festishisation of white skin in a predominantly brown-skinned country comes inextricably entwined with an irreconcilable sense of contradiction and an often-unconscious notion of self-loathing.

Creams and lotions that claim to lighten the tone of one's skin has become a multi-billion-rupee industry in India. A new cream launched last year - said to be made exclusively for men and guaranteeing that it would turn them fair - made $20 million for the company that produced it.

In India fair equates with pretty, handsome and attractive. People not seen to be fair have invited ridicule in charged moments - and not merely on a cricket field. "Kaaliya (blackie/darkie)," the chant goes. The South African cricketer Makhaya Ntini will know this. As will African students on the streets of Mumbai.

Very often, though, it is not so much a term of ridicule as a bald statement of fact. I grew up in a middle-class, educated Bengali household in Kolkata. No one thought much about describing my complexion in Bengali as Moila (literally translated as "dirty"); the term was uttered with unselfconsciousness, if with a bit of regret. With Symonds, though, it goes beyond that.

Besides, we are great ones for conformity. Bal remembers how Lasith Malinga, the Sri Lankan cricketer with streaked hair, a decided swagger and a sling-arm action, faced boorish behaviour when he played in India. And Symonds, with his braids and zinc cream, looks to the uninformed lunatic fringe to be not so much non-white as different. For their purposes, it did not help that he nearly single-handedly annihilated India in the one-day series.

So where do the monkey chants come in? They do not traditionally belong to the Indian sports fans' lexicon - or repository of abuse. Nor do such chants have the connotations that they would have for, say, a football fan in Europe. That is to say, they do not have the same resonance of racism. They exist as something that is meant to be derisive and contemptuous - and shockingly so. "Monkey" in any Indian language is a common term of abuse, suggesting annoying or stupid. I am not so sure it was a reference to Symonds's West Indian origins.

The man and his imitators in the picture, who riled Symonds with their ape-like gestures, and those in Vadodara from whom he might stupidly have picked it up, are contemptible, reprehensible, insensitive, uninformed and inexcusable.

They need to be told that. They ought to be outed. They must be punished.

The increased security and the closed-circuit cameras that will be trained on the crowd for today's Twenty20 match between India and Australia is a start. They'll be seen behaving incorrigibly - if they do. And there should be no pardon. But India as a country tends to pretend that they are not worth making a fuss about - that this is not worth making a fuss about. That must change. For India's own good, and for that of those who come to visit us. The new, globalised world order demands it. Hard soul-searching, unforgiving self-introspection and that natural accommodation of difference is what we cannot afford to do without.

Otherwise, the stereotype of India as a superpower that alters the geopolitical map of the world in the 21st century will remain merely that: a stereotype. And not entirely representative of reality.​
Basically exactly the same thing as hbh has been saying, this Soumya Bhattacharya chap is of the mind.
 

sideshowtim

Banned
Has sideshowtim been banned??!!
If yes was he warned before being banned?
I was not warned at all.

It seems I was banned for doing nothing other than arguing my opinion. I thought it seemed to be a reasonably sensible opinion...Pretty ridiculous that I was banned TBH. The mods have a bit of explaining to do. I don't understand how I got banned, honestly.
 

andyc

Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
I was not warned at all.

It seems I was banned for doing nothing other than arguing my opinion. I thought it seemed to be a reasonably sensible opinion...Pretty ridiculous that I was banned TBH. The mods have a bit of explaining to do. I don't understand how I got banned, honestly.
AWTA. I don't see how you were doing anything worse than anyone else in this thread.
 

Richard

Cricket Web Staff Member
Neither do I, but I gather that there are posts which I cannot see, so I wait to form an opinion.

Tim (presuming that is your name) your best bet is to email moderators@cricketweb.net with your grievances if you haven't already.
 

PhoenixFire

International Coach
I was not warned at all.

It seems I was banned for doing nothing other than arguing my opinion. I thought it seemed to be a reasonably sensible opinion...Pretty ridiculous that I was banned TBH. The mods have a bit of explaining to do. I don't understand how I got banned, honestly.
Neither do I, but I gather that there are posts which I cannot see, so I wait to form an opinion.

Tim (presuming that is your name) your best bet is to email moderators@cricketweb.net with your grievances if you haven't already.
Indeed, Richard is right, just e-mail James or any other the mods and we'll be happy to discuss why you were banned.
 

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