honestbharani
Whatever it takes!!!
Then the discussion is a question of definition. Racism is, at it's most simple, viewing a difference on the basis of a person's race, which absolutely occurs in every society. Racism (much like the whole concept of "race") is a fluid idea, rather than a definitive one. The word may have had an added perjorative connotation added in some societies, but it exists as a part of the human race.
I would certainly concede that there has never been mass racial lynchings or anything of the sort in India, but that doesn't preclude the existence of racism completely. In different societies it exists in different forms and in different magnitudes- but it still exists.
yep. Exactly. The way I define racism (and it is based on what I have learned in school and stuff), it doesn't exist in India. But as you said, if you take a more macroscopic view and include lots of other things to the definition of racism, yes, THAT does exist in India. Maybe I should not have been so pedantic about it, but sst does get one's nerves. Sorry.
yeah, agree with that. Again, it is just definitions that we are talking about here.The caste system is merely a more ingrained, documented and regimented form of classism. They are, at their core, the same basic idea.
For some reason, humanity seems to need to find a way to classify each other and differentiate between each other. Sometimes this is closer to the surface than in other cases, but the basic need is the same. Frankly, my sociological view is that classism and racism (as well as the majority of other points of discrimination that different societies have found throughout history) come from the same base instinct, and thus are directly comparable.
I haven't seen any report of Ponting or Symonds complaining about being booed- the only complaints that I have seen have concerned the racial issue. I am certainly not doubting you, but I haven't seen those reports myself. If they did complain about being booed, then they are being far too precious. Visiting teams (and often the home teams t'boot) get booed- that is a reality that they have to face.
I think Ponting and/or Symonds said something like "The crowd behaviour at the end and during the presentation was disappointing" or something like that. I did watch the end of the game and the presentation and it was obvious that Symonds was getting very very heavily booed, but that was about it. I read it somewhere and I am outside right now, so can't search now. If I find it, I will link you to it.
Again, it is a matter of degree. Saying racist things is racist. It may not be on the same scale as hanging a black man from a tree, but it is still racist.
Racial taunting is far more heinous than drunkards yelling "no ball". One is abhorrent, one is not. To compare the two (and, if you are not talking about the "no ball" chants, then I apologise) is disingenuous.
The no ball chant alone may not matter, but the stuff added to it can matter to an individual person. I agree it may not be as offensive as a racist taunt, speaking wholistically,but for the individual person, it may affect him emotionally just as much as a racist taunt. My view is, beyond a certain point, crowds should not be allowed to yell out stuff which can emotionally affect a sportsman... Whether it be calling Symonds a monkey, or calling Murali a cheat, or making fun of Gilly about his wife or making fun of Shane Warne's failed marriage......
I read the story that you linked to, and I stand by my first comment regarding the BCCI. I agree that the first case was probably not racist, but the second two instances certainly were.
I should have made it clear in my first post, but I certainly wasn't attributing every point toward you- I was commenting on different points in the thread made by various posters. I should have attributed quotes, but as I said I am phenomenonally lazy, particularly when it comes to message board posting. My apologies if you thought I was directing all of that at you personally.
No, no, no need to apologize mate. I knew it wasn't all directed at me, but I felt like replying to your post, because unlike with sst, here it is at least an actual rational discussion and I am also learning something from you, as I hope you may from me, from this discussion.
And the reason I linked you to that story was because there they have mentioned that one Australian daily has admitted that the story about them capturing some racist taunts on camera was not true.
I'll try to find it. No promises, though, as I hate searching for stuff on the internet when I'm not getting paid for it (lord knows I do enough of it when I am getting paid). If I find it in my travels, I'll be sure to post it. Sorry to be so vague- now you know why I rarely post.
The photo was a still of a section of the crowd, with a few people scratching their underarms (in the typical "monkey" pose). It was pretty obvious what they were doing. I believe the photo was taken in Mumbai.
Oh, then yeah, I do think I have seen it and obviously those guys were evicted as well. I had thought you said that cricinfo posted a picture from Vadodara or something, which is what one Australian daily claimed and have later denied.
Speed is a knob. He likes taking shots at EVERYBODY. I think it makes him feel potent.
I agree totally, by the way. Cricket administration has been incredibly poor for a long time, and I certainly don't expect any better. Low expectations don't mean that they aren't worthy of criticism, though.
Not at all, but it is honestly fruitless to expect these guys to do anything constructive. Today the CA have said that they are happy with what the BCCI have done. TBH, I do think the BCCI have been a little more active on this than I expected them to be (or maybe it was just the Mumbai police), but even if the BCCI did nothing and said nothing happened and that it was all a misunderstanding by Symonds, you think CA would have done anything different? We may as well expect Sreesanth to applaud a good shot from a batsman...
I think it sums up the collective mentality of the internet quite succinctly, no?
Anyway, good show. I enjoy discussing things with reasonable people, as you obviously are.
Thanks a lot. That feeling is mutual, btw.