Ambrose v McGrath

[Coronis]

I think it would be close even if the poll was launched again

lets do it!

 

[Plumbinfront]

I'm actually surprised Ambrose is leading in this poll; I think if we started a fresh one then the currently active members on CW would vote in McGrath pretty comfortably.

That said it was a nice surprise; Ambrose every time for me.

I must say I'm surprised. I've always been under the impression that you rate players based on who had the better career. Nothing wrong with having Ambrose ahead, mind. It's so close that it basically comes down to personal preferences. Just a tad surprised that you haven't gone for the bloke with the better career statistically (albeit marginally) in this case.

 

[Prince EWS]

I must say I'm surprised. I've always been under the impression that you rate players based on who had the better career. Nothing wrong with having Ambrose ahead, mind. It's so close that it basically comes down to personal preferences. Just a tad surprised that you haven't gone for the bloke with the better career statistically (albeit marginally) in this case.

As far as I'm concerned, Ambrose had the better career statistically. He played for the equivalent of 11 and a half years and averaged 21 odd. Nothing not to love about his statistical contribution. In fact, I think weldone's combination of the data I produced on longevity and standardised average ranked Ambrose the best bowler of all time.

 

[Plumbinfront]

Interesting. Just goes to show how ''better career'' could mean different things to different people. Personally I'd always go for overall aggregate and number of matches (average considered of course) as the indicators of ''better career'' rather than number of years played. Never been a fan of that but each to their own I guess.

 

[karan316]

Ambrose is one of my favourites, but McGrath has been the most dependable bowler ever, a captain can throw the ball to him in any given format in any situation and expect him to give the desired results.

 

[Plumbinfront]

Ambrose is one of my favourites, but McGrath has been the most dependable bowler ever, a captain can throw the ball to him in any given format in any situation and expect him to give the desired results.

I concur. The way he outfoxed the batsmen just boggled the mind. In a charity T20 game I think it was, McGrath was miked up whilst bowling to Warner and he predicted that Warner would nick him and get out and he did the very next ball! Incredible.

 

[bagapath]

Ambrose is one of my favourites, but McGrath has been the most dependable bowler ever, a captain can throw the ball to him in any given format in any situation and expect him to give the desired results.

the same is true for ambrose too. he was also an one-man army on many occasions. dont remember him being taken to the cleaners too often.

both had very long, durable careers. took heaps of wickets everywhere. played and retired as the best bowlers in their respective teams. but for very minor blips both careers were stellar and i cant find a way to split them. top 10 bowlers ever? abso-****ing-lutely

 

[Plumbinfront]

McGrath had tremendous success against Lara and Tendulkar, arguably the two best batsmen of his era. Ambrose never played much against Tendulkar and obviously didn't have to play against Lara. Probably too harsh to split them along those lines but when it's so, so close as is the case here...

 

[Top_Cat]

Ambrose also never went to India.

Concur with bagapath, obv. This idea that it's clear-cut either way is ****ing ridiculous.

 

[Satyanash89]

I voted Ambrose because of his action... might sound lame, but it's way to close to decide on statistics/achievements, when they're both so amazing. That wrist jiggle before he released the ball was just ***y. Don't know if it's actually true but I just remember Ambrose running through lineups and ripping them apart from top to bottom a bit more frequently than McGrath.

Saying McGrath is better because of his longevity is unfair because they both played for roughly the same length of time. McGrath does have one thing in his favour though, which is that he was just as deadly on the supposedly flat pitches of the 2000s as he was in the 90s. Plus, I don't think there was any other fast bowler even close to McGrath's quality in the last few years of his career. I have no doubt Ambrose would have been just as good if he had played past 2001 because they were pretty similar bowlers, though

 

[Top_Cat]

Yeah, agree. Ambrose' body language was immense.

 

[Lillian Thomson]

Ambrose was uglier and had a more intimidating physical presence but wasn't a better bowler. I didn't vote in this - would probably have opted out and gone for the irrelevant option had there been one.

 

[watson]

Would love to have either bowler in my team - but I believe McGrath to be better than Ambrose (but obviously not by much).

The author in the following article used the following criteria to rank 15 'great bowlers' of his choice;

01. Career wickets captured
02. Bowling strike rate (Bpw)
03. Bowling accuracy (Rpo)
04. Average quality of wickets captured
05. Away wicket bowling average
06. % of top order wickets captured
07. % of team load borne
08. Peer comparison of average to all peer bowlers
09. Peer comparison of average to own team peer bowlers
10. Performance in won matches

His order after crunching the numbers was;

01. Muralitharan M
02. McGrath G.D
03. Hadlee R.J
04. Marshall M.D
05. Ambrose C.E.L
06. Imran Khan
07. Lillee D.K
08. Donald A.A
09. Garner J
10. Warne S.K
11. Trueman F.S
12. Wasim Akram
13. Waqar Younis
14. Kumble A
15. Kapil Dev N

The fearsome fifteen: a look at the great bowlers
Blogs: The fearsome fifteen: a look at the great bowlers | Cricket Blogs | ESPN Cricinfo

 

[smash84]

Why is McGrath's average quality of batsmen the same as warne who had a very high number of tailend wickets?

But WAG he is just second to Murali

 

[Lillian Thomson]

What a berk (man of his age).

 

[bagapath]

McGrath had tremendous success against Lara and Tendulkar, arguably the two best batsmen of his era. Ambrose never played much against Tendulkar and obviously didn't have to play against Lara. Probably too harsh to split them along those lines but when it's so, so close as is the case here...

ambrose never had the advantage of his batsmen piling up big totals, which mcgrath had throughout his career. it is one thing opening your bowling with 400 runs in the kitty and a completely different game if you have only 200 to dismiss the opposition for. and, mcgrath didnt ever bowl to border and waugh - two equally massive batsmen as sachin and brian. so lets discuss and dissect their careers - but for ****'s sake lets not make choosing one over the other sound too obvious, coz it is not. (not saying you are making it sound easy, plumbinfront, in case i need to clarify)

 

[fredfertang]

Ambrose, much more entertaining

 

[smash84]

both terrorized the pathetic Pakistani batsmen of the 90s and 2000s......Ambrose in the early to mid 90s and McGrath from late 90s to late 00s......McGrath probably did more psychological damage to pakistani batsmen than Ambrose though

 

[uvelocity]

ambrose was awesome, scary, dominating and dangerous. mcgrath was relentless, surgical, crafty and choking. even allowing for all the dominance pigeon brought to the aussie team I can't choose.

 

[Lillian Thomson]

Would love to have either bowler in my team - but I believe McGrath to be better than Ambrose (but obviously not by much).

The author in the following article used the following criteria to rank 15 'great bowlers' of his choice;

01. Career wickets captured
02. Bowling strike rate (Bpw)
03. Bowling accuracy (Rpo)
04. Average quality of wickets captured
05. Away wicket bowling average
06. % of top order wickets captured
07. % of team load borne
08. Peer comparison of average to all peer bowlers
09. Peer comparison of average to own team peer bowlers
10. Performance in won matches

His order after crunching the numbers was;

01. Muralitharan M
02. McGrath G.D
03. Hadlee R.J
04. Marshall M.D
05. Ambrose C.E.L
06. Imran Khan
07. Lillee D.K
08. Donald A.A
09. Garner J
10. Warne S.K
11. Trueman F.S
12. Wasim Akram
13. Waqar Younis
14. Kumble A
15. Kapil Dev N

The fearsome fifteen: a look at the great bowlers
Blogs: The fearsome fifteen: a look at the great bowlers | Cricket Blogs | ESPN Cricinfo

More meaningless statsmongering. Here's a list of 15 bowlers off the top of my head based on absolutely nothing - and it's better than his.

1. Lillee
2. Marshall
3. Trueman
4. Warne
5. Ambrose
6. McGrath
7. Hadlee
8. Donald
9. Imran
10. Murali
11. Steyn
12. Waqar
13. Roberts
14. Wasim
15. Lindwall