ankitj
Hall of Fame Member
Bit like seeing off an over from Bumrah only to face Ishant
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Allan Donald vs Michael Holding
- Thread starter subshakerz
- Start date
stephen
Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
Only in the same way that looking at two Ford focuses leaving the traffic lights is like watching a formula 1 start.Bit like seeing off an over from Bumrah only to face Ishant
_00_deathscar
International Regular
We didn’t even need the Ford Focuses to wreck your lot. In your yard. We brought out the Maruti Hatchbacks.
Anyway the real question is - Michael Donald or Allan Holding?
stephen
Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
RIP Australian cricket. Tragically cut short at Newlands 2018.
Slifer
International Captain
Tbf, I think Marshall and Holding would probably take the new ball, with Garner being first change. Lol. Actually, now that I think about it, the new ball pair varied so often...for obvious reasons.
Gob
International Coach
Now this looks like a Gob for me
OverratedSanity
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Donald lost quite a few of his earlier of his to isolation. A good 3-4 years at the very least. If not for that he'd probably still be SA's leading wickettaker.
The Sean
Cricketer Of The Year
That delay was probably a double-edged sword, statistically. One one hand, it definitely cost him a chunk of wickets. On the other, the fact that he didn't debut until he was 25 meant that he arrived into Test cricket almost fully formed - for want of a better term - and so missed the early-career developmental struggles he might have had as a young quick. So that delay hurt his wickets total, but likely improved his average and strike rate.
honestbharani
Whatever it takes!!!
all it took was a 2 inch yellow sandpaper too. Sad.
As per Imran, batsmen were trying to get away from Holding so they could face Roberts :
h_hurricane
International Vice-Captain
These are 2 bowlers I would love to watch bowling in tandem.
Whispering Death had the most fluid action of them all. Apparently no effort whatsoever in that runup. Sent shivers through the spines of the batsmen though. His famous over against Boycott in early 80s and that spell at Oval 1976 are much celebrated.
White Lightning on the other hand had such a solid action, with every inch of his momentum directed towards the batsmen. A bit under-rated in CW I feel, though was awesome across a variety of conditions. Had the good privilege to meet him in 1996. Was gentle man personified. Don't ask the hapless opposition batsmen though.
Whispering Death had the most fluid action of them all. Apparently no effort whatsoever in that runup. Sent shivers through the spines of the batsmen though. His famous over against Boycott in early 80s and that spell at Oval 1976 are much celebrated.
White Lightning on the other hand had such a solid action, with every inch of his momentum directed towards the batsmen. A bit under-rated in CW I feel, though was awesome across a variety of conditions. Had the good privilege to meet him in 1996. Was gentle man personified. Don't ask the hapless opposition batsmen though.
I remember having this converstation a couple of years ago on CW with someone with the exact opposite view to you (that his stats were wrecked by the fact that he played a dispropportionate amount as a broken old dude due to late debut).
My answer is the same to both of you.
i do.t think it makes much difference to his average, just his numbwr of wickets. Would have been weaker at the start, but had a longer time being great, and his slide at the end would have been proportionally less.
subshakerz
Hall of Fame Member
The thing that makes this close was that Holding had monster series hauls in England, Australia and India and won matches in all those countries. Donald has pretty figures but in terms of match impact hasnt done much outside of England.
I think the only reason I may put Donald ahead was the longevity factor. A bit like how Graeme Swann loses out even though I consider him to be a more quality spinner than peers like Ashwin or Lyon but lacks that 300 wicket milestone and hence should be ranked lower.
I think the only reason I may put Donald ahead was the longevity factor. A bit like how Graeme Swann loses out even though I consider him to be a more quality spinner than peers like Ashwin or Lyon but lacks that 300 wicket milestone and hence should be ranked lower.
_00_deathscar
International Regular
Swann > Ashwin is a huge call...
subshakerz
Hall of Fame Member
I think that has to do more with wicket tally, in which case I agree Ashwin would be better. But Swann was a consistent matchwinner in all conditions in a way Ashwin was not.
_00_deathscar
International Regular
Nah not having that he was that consistent a matchwinner in all conditions.
First of all, he only played 60 tests, in which he averaged the below vs the 3 strongest teams of his time:
39.98 vs Australia
32.68 vs India
38.68 vs South Africa
The Sean
Cricketer Of The Year
I’m not sure who you had the conversation with, but I don’t agree that Donald played a disproportionate amount as a broken old dude, nor to your point that he had much of a slide at the end. He played his last Test at the age of 35, retiring almost as soon as he went in decline after a couple of poor Tests. He got out before his decline could have a real impact on his career numbers.
As for an earlier debut meaning he was great for longer, I guess that’s all conjecture and it would depend on exactly how early he debuted and how long it took him to develop. But to my point about it having an impact statistically: over his career Donald averaged 22 and struck at 47, so if during those early-20s years his numbers weren’t that good – and it is a fair assumption that they wouldn’t have been – then the earlier debut would indeed have affected his overall average and strike rate while adding additional wickets.
subshakerz
Hall of Fame Member
Well, Swann didn't have the advantage of playing so much of his career on subcontinent wickets like Ashwin did. Once you see how they did across countries, Swann does pretty well.
But yeah, its close enough between them that Ashwin's higher wicket count will trump Swann's other advantages as a bowler.
Anyways, they are are not the subject of debate.
Pap Finn Keighl
International Debutant
22-24 yrs age
Akram avg 20
Steyn 19
Warne 24
Waqar 24
Botham 20
Pollock 24
Kumble 24
Rabada 23
Bishop 19
Hadlee 23
Procter 14
Holding 16
Walsh 25
Marshall 26
Ambrose 28
Garner 28
Imran 30
Murali 34
Akthar 36
Mcgrath 38
Anderson 42
honestbharani
Whatever it takes!!!
Ashwin is easily > Swann. Swann had the advantage of playing exactly as the DRS was introduced which means batsmen did not have the changes in their techniques for playing spin they had even about 3-4 years later.