DrWolverine
U19 Cricketer
In Tests
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Allan Border vs Steve Waugh
- Thread starter DrWolverine
- Start date
HouHsiaoHsien
International Debutant
Not close at all
capt_Luffy
Cricketer Of The Year
Disagree heavily that it's not close.
DrWolverine
U19 Cricketer
Border but it is quite close
Allan Border did it in tougher circumstances but it was not like he was far ahead of Steve Waugh
Allan Border did it in tougher circumstances but it was not like he was far ahead of Steve Waugh
HouHsiaoHsien
International Debutant
Border succeeded in the top order which Waugh didn’t. Makes a big difference. Plus Border even among ATGs has a nearly perfect record.
HouHsiaoHsien
International Debutant
Plus people always bring out the attacks against which Waugh had great series, and sure he should be given credit for that. But Border did that against an even wider range of opponents: ATG series vs Marshall, Garner and Holding in WI, vs Holding, Garner and Roberts in Aus, great series vs Hadlee(during his 33 wicket series) in Aus, vs Imran and Sarfraz in Aus(where both bowled crazy reverse spells that series), vs ATG Botham and Willis in 1981. Plus he was regarded as an amazing player of spin on top of that
capt_Luffy
Cricketer Of The Year
It does. But that's for relatively small sample size. He also has a Chandrapaulesque RPI, unlike Waugh; which could had been rectified batting up the order more often.
Waugh has as complete a record as Border really. Despite having more than his fair share of moments, Border's home record is relatively lackluster by ATG standards.
Slifer
International Captain
Abstain. Both played a crazy amount of great attacks in their lifetime and generally each had varying degrees of success.
Gun to my head however, I have a soft spot for Steve Waugh. The man made runs vs some serious attacks over his lifetime: averaged 40 odd when he first faced us in '88 vs an attack of Marshall, Ambrose, Walsh and Patterson. Then in back to back series in the WI, he had atg series vs the great Ambrose and Walsh. He made runs vs Pollock and Donald and vs the WWs to an extent not even the greats Lara and even Sachin could manage. His 150 odd vs Wasim, Saqlain and Mustaq in Pakistan in 1998 was amazing.
Maybe nothing Waugh did could match what Border did in the Caribbean in 1984 but some run that close enough. And with the success Waugh had vs the varying attacks he faced, he's my choice.
Gun to my head however, I have a soft spot for Steve Waugh. The man made runs vs some serious attacks over his lifetime: averaged 40 odd when he first faced us in '88 vs an attack of Marshall, Ambrose, Walsh and Patterson. Then in back to back series in the WI, he had atg series vs the great Ambrose and Walsh. He made runs vs Pollock and Donald and vs the WWs to an extent not even the greats Lara and even Sachin could manage. His 150 odd vs Wasim, Saqlain and Mustaq in Pakistan in 1998 was amazing.
Maybe nothing Waugh did could match what Border did in the Caribbean in 1984 but some run that close enough. And with the success Waugh had vs the varying attacks he faced, he's my choice.
Burgey
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Didn't help his record that Kerry Packer insisted the West Indies come out here every two years in 79/80, 81/82 and 84/85. Then again in 88/89. FMD the first two tests used to be Perth and Brisbane - we'd be 2-0 down inside 4.5 days' play back then. Was a nightmare.
capt_Luffy
Cricketer Of The Year
I actually think 95 WI actually does that.
Slifer
International Captain
Idk, the 1984 wi attack was better and fielding much better. If the '95 attack had Bishop then I might agree. Both performances though, pretty much carried Australia.
Burgey
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Yeah Waugh's 95 tour was incredible really. He hadn't really given much of an indication before then that he'd aim up vs the Windies. He batted three in the 92/93 series here with pretty mixed results to put it mildly. I suppose there were signs he'd become an excellent player a year earlier when he payed some fine innings against Pakistan and SA. But that tour was certainly his magnum opus.
Fuller Pilch
Hall of Fame Member
Was owned by John Bracewell though.
HouHsiaoHsien
International Debutant
No Marshall, Garner and Holding are better than Ambrose+Walsh(plus this was after Amby’s peak)
capt_Luffy
Cricketer Of The Year
The first attack is better but not hugely. Both Walsh and Ambrose won a MoTM each in that series; and Steve Waugh was the difference between the two teams by FAR; leading to the series victory as oppose to defeat. I believe you rate such series where a batsman carries their team to victory quite highly.
HouHsiaoHsien
International Debutant
Border has 5000+ runs at 3 and 4 combined- not a small size at all. But Waugh averaged sub 40 vs SL and NZ, and was just above that in Pak. Border only in SA(but that was the end of his career). And Border did well vs a greater variety of ATG’s: WI at home and away, Pak reverse swing, much better Eng attacks etc
HouHsiaoHsien
International Debutant
Anyways Border was the best bat vs peak Holding and peak Garner(add to that Roberts) in 81/82 in a tied series vs WI.
capt_Luffy
Cricketer Of The Year
Waugh is better against WI overall. Border's home record is a bit weak by ATG standards and has a RPI under 45, quite lower than Waugh despite batting higher more often.