All time XIs discussion

[jimmy101]

What's he say about the others? (don't push copyright too hard)

There's quite a lot actually. Here are a few more of his top 10's.

Greatest batsmen post war

1. Vivian Richards
2. Peter May
3. Garfield Sobers
4. Len Hutton
5. Denis Compton
6. Clyde Walcott
7. Barry Richards
8. Neil Harvey
9. Everton Weekes
10. Greg Chappell

Greatest fast bowlers between the wars (Graveney was a young boy in the 1930's)

1. Harold Larwood
2. Bill Voce
3. Jack Gregory
4. Ted McDonald
5. Maurice Tate
6. Bill Bowes
7. Ken Farnes
8. Manny Martindale
9. Gubby Allen
10. Tim Wall

Greatest spin bowlers post war

1. Jim Laker
2. Sonny Ramadhin
3. Derek Underwood
4. Richie Benaud
5. Lance Gibbs
6. Bishan Bedi
7. Bob Appleyard
8. Tony Lock
9. Hugh Tayfield
10. Bhagwat Chandrasekhar

 

[the big bambino]

Tom must not have seen Amar Nissar Constantine or Cowie. All of whom would get ahead of Wall.

 

[Daemon]

Tons of writers and ex-players today write utter bollocks despite having the benefit of video replays and live television coverage. It's why I have trouble trusting a lot of the old timey stuff, despite the eloquent writing.

 

[Bolo]

Hall had completed his career in 82. Roberts and Holding (as well as Lillee) were still playing. Maybe Graveney is taking the CW path and downgrading the ranking of players based on an incomplete career. Could use the logic on Chappell and Barry in the batting list too, and say an exception was made for Viv- he was insane to date. So many questionable decisions though- it's hard to rationalize all of them.

 

[Starfighter]

It's pretty odd. I know stats aren't everything but Hall has comfortably the worst record of anyone on that list, both tests and first class. Seems he left a big impression on Graveney.

 

[harsh.ag]

Ramadhin got Graveney out a bunch of times so he gets to be number 2. It's that simple.

 

[Starfighter]

India XI 1 Sunil Gavaskar 2 Virender Sehwag 3 Rahul Dravid 4 Sachin Tendulkar 5 Virat Kohli 6 Vinoo Mankad 7 MS Dhoni+ 8 Kapil Dev* 9 Anil Kumble 10 Javagal Srinath 11 Subhash Gupte	India A XI 1 Vijay Merchant 2 Navjot Sidhu 3 Mohinder Amarnath 4 Vijay Hazare* 5 VVS Laxman 6 Polly Umrigar 7 Ravi Ashwin 8 Syed Kirmani+ 9 Amar Singh 10 Bishan Bedi 11 Mohammad Nissar	India B XI 1 Gautum Gambhir 2 Murali Vijay 3 Gundappa Viswanath 4 Mohammad Azharuddin 5 Dilip Vengsarkar 6 Saurav Ganguly* 7 Farokh Engineer+ 8 Bhuvneshwar Kumar 9 Zaheer Khan 10 Erapalli Prasanna 11 B. Chandrasekhar	India C XI 1 Ravi Shastri 2 Shikhar Dhawan 3 Cheteshwar Pujara 4 Ajinkya Rahane 5 Vijay Manjrekar 6 Nawab of Pataudi* 7 Wriddhiman Saha+ 8 Ravi Jadeja 9 Harbhajan Singh 10 Mohammed Shami 11 Ishant Sharma	India D XI 1 Madhav Apte 2 Pankaj Roy 3 Dilip Sardesai 4 Chandu Borde 5 Vinod Kambli 6 Lala Armanath* 7 Budhi Kunderan+ 8 Irfan Pathan 9 Karsan Ghavri 10 Umesh Yadav 11 Dilip Doshi	India E XI 1 Motganhalli Jaismha 2 Lokesh Rahul 3 C.K Nayudu* 4 Nari Contractor 5 Rohit Sharna 6 Dattu Phadkar 7 Bapu Nadkarni 8 Kiran More+ 9 Roger Binny 10 Venkatesh Prasad 11 Ghulam Ahmed
India F XI 1 S. Ramesh 2 Wasim Jaffer 3 Sanjay Manjrekar 4 Rusi Modi 5 Yuvraj Singh 6 Manoj Prabhakar 7 Nayan Mongia+ 8 Chetan Sharma 9 Praveen Kumar 10 S. Venkataraghavan 11 Venkatapathy Raju	India G XI 1 Chetan Chauhan 2 Kris Srikkanth 3 Ajit Wadekar 4 Yashpal Sharma 5 Sandeep Patil 6 Salim Durani 7 Parthiv Patel+ 8 Ramakant Desai 9 Pragyan Ojha 10 Jasprit Bumrah 11 Narendra Hirwani	India H XI 1 Mushtaq Ali 2 Anshuman Gaekwad 3 Brijesh Patel 4 Pravin Amre 5 Nawab of Pataudi Sr* 6 Ajay Sharma 7 Madan Lal 8 Kuldeep Yadav 9 Shivlal Yadav 10 Naren Tamhane+ 11 S. Sreesanth	India I XI 1 Shiv Sunder Das 2 Akash Chopra 3 Yashpal Sharma 4 Mohammad Kaif 5 Hemu Adhikari 6 Eknath Solkar 7 Chandrakant Pandit+ 8 Gulabrai Ramchand* 9 Syed Abid Ali 10 Murali Kartik 11 Jasubhai Patel

 

[harsh.ag]

India's B Xi might be > A XI

 

[Daemon]

India's B Xi might be > A XI

Nah pretty huge gulf in class between the top 4. Possibly in the bowling department.

 

[Himannv]

Yeah, agreed. India B looks considerably stronger actually.

 

[OverratedSanity]

Yeah, agreed. India B looks considerably stronger actually.

Agree

 

[harsh.ag]

Not comparing the first and second XIs, dummy. The second and third XIs.

 

[OverratedSanity]

ok

 

[srbhkshk]

I don't think it's considerably stronger by any means - very comparable teams for sure though.

Edit - And how'd a pace bowling all-rounder like Hardik miss out on all the teams...

 

[Red]

Australia XI: 1. VT Trumper 2. ML Hayden 3. DG Bradman * 4. GS Chappell 5. AR Border 6. KR Miller 7. AC Gilchrist + 8. RR Lindwall 9. SK Warne 10. DK Lillee 11. GD McGrath	Australia A XI 1. AR Morris 2. RB Simpson 3. RT Ponting 4. RN Harvey 5. SPD Smith 6. SR Waugh * 7. IA Healy + 8. AK Davidson 9. JN Gillespie 10. WJ Reilly 11. FR Spofforth	Australia B XI 1. WM Lawry 2. WH Ponsford 3. C Hill 4. SJ McCabe 5. MJ Clarke * 6. KD Walters 7. RW Marsh + 8. MG Johnson 9. CBT Turner 10. CV Grimmett 11. JR Thomson	Australia C XI 1. WM Woodfull 2. JL Langer 3. CG Macartney 4. AL Hassett 5. MEK Hussey 6. MA Noble 7. RB Benaud * 8. WAS Oldfield + 9. RJ Harris 10. GD McKenzie 11. WA Johnston	Australia D XI 1. DA Warner 2. SG Barnes 3. IM Chappell * 4. DR Martyn 5. ME Waugh 6. WW Armstrong 7. JM Gregory 8. D Tallon + 9. H Trumble 10. CJ McDermott 11. TM Alderman	Australia E XI 1. MA Taylor * 2. W Bardsley 3. DC Boon 4. NCL O'Neill 5. DM Jones 6. J Ryder 7. G Giffen 8. JM Blackham + 9. MG Hughes 10. SCG MacGill 11. BA Reid
Australia F XI 1. MJ Slater 2. A Jackson 3. IR Redpath 4. RM Cowper 5. DS Lehmann * 6. SR Watson 7. BJ Haddin + 8. B Lee 9. JR Hazlewood 10. NM Lyon 11. JJ Ferris	Australia G XI 1. WA Brown 2. HL Collins * 3. GN Yallop 4. KJ Hughes 5. SM Katich 6. WL Murdoch 7. GJ Gilmour 8. MA Starc 9. ATW Grout + 10. EA McDonald 11. H Ironmonger	Australia H XI 1. KR Stackpole 2. CC McDonald 3. BC Booth * 4. PJP Burge 5. VS Ransford 6. C Kelleway 7. H Carter + 8. DW Fleming 9. WJ Whitty 10. AA Mailey 11. RM Hogg	Australia I XI 1. RA Duff 2. JHW Fingleton 3. KC Wessels 4. UT Khawaja 5. AG Kippax 6. CL McCool 7. PR Reiffel 8. JJ Kelly + 9. MHN Walker 10. GF Lawson * 11. GE Palmer	Australia J XI 1. J Darling * 2. CLJ Rogers 3. GS Blewett 4. R Edwards 5. AC Voges 6. A Symonds 7. RG Archer 8. GRA Langley + 9. SR Clark 10. AN Connolly 11. JV Saunders	Australia K XI 1. RB McCosker 2. GR Marsh 3. FA Iredale 4. PS McDonnell * 5. SG Law 6. KD Mackay 7. WB Phillips + 8. A Cotter 9. PM Siddle 10. AA Mallett 11. ERH Toshack
Australia L XI 1. PA Jaques 2. C Bannerman 3. SE Marsh 4. BJ Hodge 5. DW Hookes * 6. GRJ Matthews 7. HV Horden 8. JL Pattinson 9. BN Jarman + 10. G Dymock 11. LS Pascoe	Australia M XI 1. GM Wood 2. PJ Hughes 3. AP Sheahan 4. GM Ritchie 5. SE Gregory * 6. MG Bevan 7. TD Paine + 8. NJN Hawke 9. AG Hurst 10. CG Rackemann 11. JB Iverson	Australia N XI 1. MTG Elliott 2. BM Laird 3. JW Burke 4. MJ North 5. JM Taylor 6. SJE Loxton 7. LV Maddocks + 8. PJ Cummins 9. IWG Johnson * 10. BW Hilfenhaus 11. E Jones	Australia O XI 1. AMJ Hilditch 2. AC Bannerman 3. ML Love 4. P Toohey 5. GJ Cosier 6. TM Moody 7. PM Nevill + 8. B Yardley 9. MS Kasprowicz 10. CR Miller 11. WM Clark

India XI 1 Sunil Gavaskar 2 Virender Sehwag 3 Rahul Dravid 4 Sachin Tendulkar 5 Virat Kohli 6 Vinoo Mankad 7 MS Dhoni+ 8 Kapil Dev* 9 Anil Kumble 10 Javagal Srinath 11 Subhash Gupte	India A XI 1 Vijay Merchant 2 Navjot Sidhu 3 Mohinder Amarnath 4 Vijay Hazare* 5 VVS Laxman 6 Polly Umrigar 7 Ravi Ashwin 8 Syed Kirmani+ 9 Amar Singh 10 Bishan Bedi 11 Mohammad Nissar	India B XI 1 Gautum Gambhir 2 Murali Vijay 3 Gundappa Viswanath 4 Mohammad Azharuddin 5 Dilip Vengsarkar 6 Saurav Ganguly* 7 Farokh Engineer+ 8 Bhuvneshwar Kumar 9 Zaheer Khan 10 Erapalli Prasanna 11 B. Chandrasekhar	India C XI 1 Ravi Shastri 2 Shikhar Dhawan 3 Cheteshwar Pujara 4 Ajinkya Rahane 5 Vijay Manjrekar 6 Nawab of Pataudi* 7 Wriddhiman Saha+ 8 Ravi Jadeja 9 Harbhajan Singh 10 Mohammed Shami 11 Ishant Sharma	India D XI 1 Madhav Apte 2 Pankaj Roy 3 Dilip Sardesai 4 Chandu Borde 5 Vinod Kambli 6 Lala Armanath* 7 Budhi Kunderan+ 8 Irfan Pathan 9 Karsan Ghavri 10 Umesh Yadav 11 Dilip Doshi	India E XI 1 Motganhalli Jaismha 2 Lokesh Rahul 3 C.K Nayudu* 4 Nari Contractor 5 Rohit Sharna 6 Dattu Phadkar 7 Bapu Nadkarni 8 Kiran More+ 9 Roger Binny 10 Venkatesh Prasad 11 Ghulam Ahmed
India F XI 1 S. Ramesh 2 Wasim Jaffer 3 Sanjay Manjrekar 4 Rusi Modi 5 Yuvraj Singh 6 Manoj Prabhakar 7 Nayan Mongia+ 8 Chetan Sharma 9 Praveen Kumar 10 S. Venkataraghavan 11 Venkatapathy Raju	India G XI 1 Chetan Chauhan 2 Kris Srikkanth 3 Ajit Wadekar 4 Yashpal Sharma 5 Sandeep Patil 6 Salim Durani 7 Parthiv Patel+ 8 Ramakant Desai 9 Pragyan Ojha 10 Jasprit Bumrah 11 Narendra Hirwani	India H XI 1 Mushtaq Ali 2 Anshuman Gaekwad 3 Brijesh Patel 4 Pravin Amre 5 Nawab of Pataudi Sr* 6 Ajay Sharma 7 Madan Lal 8 Kuldeep Yadav 9 Shivlal Yadav 10 Naren Tamhane+ 11 S. Sreesanth	India I XI 1 Shiv Sunder Das 2 Akash Chopra 3 Yashpal Sharma 4 Mohammad Kaif 5 Hemu Adhikari 6 Eknath Solkar 7 Chandrakant Pandit+ 8 Gulabrai Ramchand* 9 Syed Abid Ali 10 Murali Kartik 11 Jasubhai Patel

Question for discussion: How deep would you have to delve into Australia's XIs before you found a pace bowler who WOULDN'T push his way into the India 1st XI?

 

[srbhkshk]

I am thinking G XI - McDonald.

Edit - Similar question - Which Australian XI would Kapil make?

 

[Bolo]

Lots of respect for Srinath, who is the weak link of the quicks. If you are going to do a direct swap, I'd take him above McDermott from the D team.

The India side would be better with a 3 quicks instead of 3 spinners though. Macdonald sounds about right.

Dev maybe replaces spofforth/Gillespie in the A and definitely Johnston in the B for mine.

 

[stephen]

Honestly I'd put Kapil as a bowler at a similar level to McDermott.

I think McDermott was better than Gillespie for longer so should have been much higher on the list. Honestly Kapil would have pushed Australia A or B. He isn't better than any of the Big 5 Aus quicks but he's roughly the same level as the next dozen or so.

They other anachronism of this list is the disparity between Harris and Reid. Both bowlers had virtually identical careers and yet Reid ended two teams lower than Harris. Both players would be several teams higher if they had full careers and I think would be Australia A material if they had 200 wickets each.

 

[stephen]

Also I imagine Cummins, Starc, Hazlewood and Pattinson will all rise up the pecking list if their careers keep progressing (well not if Hazlewood continues his poor form).

Cummins in particular I could see ending up in one if the top 3 teams should be stay relatively injury free.

 

[Daemon]

Not comparing the first and second XIs, dummy. The second and third XIs.

Oops.

Anyways I completely forgot about Pandya, he definitely deserves to be in there.