pasag
RTDAS
And yet he still chose Australia as the place to live out his final days
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All-time XI: England
- Thread starter Edged&Taken
- Start date
Lillian Thomson
Hall of Fame Member
He lived half his life in Australia and considered it the best decision he ever made.And yet he still chose Australia as the place to live out his final days
SJS
Hall of Fame Member
As someone else also suggested, Laker is another option. There is a tendency to think of him only in terms of that one Test match. He was one of the all time great spinners and there is no doubt about that. Somehow the belief has spread about his being effective only wickets that suited his bowling (as if that does not apply to all spinners).
He played on 17 grounds all over the world; more on some and less on others. In 13 of these he has a bowling average in the 20's or lower.
The colours denote the country.
The four grounds where he averaged over 30 per wicket are:-
Of course he fared better in England. No surprises in that but his average in other countries is not a disaster. The worst being the terrific batting tracks that the West Indies specialised in during the 1950's.
He played on 17 grounds all over the world; more on some and less on others. In 13 of these he has a bowling average in the 20's or lower.
Code:
[B]Ground Tests Avg[/B]
[COLOR="Blue"]Old Trafford 5 12.04[/COLOR]
[COLOR="Blue"]The Oval 8 15.95[/COLOR]
[B][COLOR="DarkGreen"]Sydney C. G. 1 16.71[/COLOR][/B]
[COLOR="Blue"]Headingley 6 16.97[/COLOR]
[B][COLOR="DarkGreen"]Brisbane C.G. 1 18[/COLOR][/B]
[COLOR="Blue"]Edgbaston 2 19.38[/COLOR]
[COLOR="Green"]Newlands 1 24[/COLOR]
[COLOR="Blue"]Lord's 5 24.44[/COLOR]
[COLOR="Blue"]Kensington Oval[/COLOR] 2 26.23
[COLOR="DarkRed"]Bourda 2 27[/COLOR]
[COLOR="Green"]New Wanderers 2 28.25[/COLOR]
[COLOR="DarkRed"]Sabina Park 2 28.29[/COLOR]
[COLOR="DarkGreen"][B]Melbourne C 2 29.4[/B][/COLOR]The four grounds where he averaged over 30 per wicket are:-
Code:
[B]Ground Tests Avg[/B]
[COLOR="Blue"]Trent Bridge 3 30.29[/COLOR]
[COLOR="Green"]St George's 1 31.5
Kingsmead 1 38[/COLOR]
[COLOR="DarkRed"]Queen's Park 2 65.5[/COLOR]
Code:
[B]Country Tests Avg[/B]
England 29 18.1
Australia 4 21.2
South Africa 5 29.5
West Indies 8 31.8SJS
Hall of Fame Member
You are right about that but somehow, I love to have an in-swing bowler like Bedser (or Imran in a world XI). But as I said thats not a major point.
Burgey
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does Burgey not rate DRJ........................
Ha ha, no I rate Jardine very highly as a captain. He was certainly the right man for the job at that time, though I don't know whether his style of captaincy could have worked long term, even without his forced resignation.
As for Larwood, always thought it was one of the biggest disgraces in cricket history that he was told to apologise for bowling Bodyline. Followed his captain's orders to the letter, played within the rules and got shafted. Diabolical.
I don't really think Selvey's on the money re. Larwood though. AFAIK he's hardly reviled here. Indeed, at the Centenary test in 77, he and Voce were brought out to the centre of the MCG before play started and they got a tremendous ovation from the crowd.
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subshakerz
Hall of Fame Member
You don't need two all-rounders, and no way is Freddie making it ahead of Botham.
zaremba
Cricketer Of The Year
Not sure why everyone seems to think it so ridiculous that KP should get in. It's not as though KP is a novice. He's scored only one fewer Test centuries than Denis and in far fewer Tests.
There's a strange self-denying tendency amongst cricket cognoscenti to write off people who happen to be in the middle of their careers: "no, we must wait until they are aged and faded before we can allow ourselves fully appreciate them". Very odd.
There's a strange self-denying tendency amongst cricket cognoscenti to write off people who happen to be in the middle of their careers: "no, we must wait until they are aged and faded before we can allow ourselves fully appreciate them". Very odd.
subshakerz
Hall of Fame Member
KP is not even in the middle of his career yet, he just debuted in 2005. How many cricketers can be described as greats after four years in the international arena? He's not past the point yet when his form can dramatically drop and he ends up an unfulfilled talent.
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fredfertang
Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
It's only once players retire and you have to rely on memories alone that their rushes of blood to the head and errors of judgment fade away - David Gower is a fine example - one of my favourite batsmen yet during his career in common with many who would similarly describe him he could be very frustrating - KP suffers in a similar way
zaremba
Cricketer Of The Year
To put the point another way, we allow our rose tinted glasses to enhance our image of a player. And we're all guilty of that. But it seems to me to make sense to try to celebrate high class players when they are in full sail rather than waiting for them first to be towed into the breaker's yard.
BoyBrumby
Englishman
I think part of the reason is what one might call the "Mike Hussey Effect", whereby players whose careers are current rather fail to maintain the impressive standards set early on and make their elevations to the pantheon look somewhat premature.
Plus, specifically related to KP, he's playing in an era when the bat holds the whip hand and hasn't quite managed to maintain an average of 50. Such is his talent I think there's a case to say he's probably slightly underperformed so far in his career but, without be arsed to check, I would imagine his record stacks up less favourably when compared to his peers than those of (say) Ranji or Sutcliffe, either of whom have cases at least as compelling as Compton's, IMHO.
I realise Herb was probably excluded because he's known primarily as an opener, but I personally think that's wrong-headed. If, for the sake of illustration, Tresco decided to return to the colours I doubt either Strauss or Cook would be most sweating on their places for the next test.
Plus, specifically related to KP, he's playing in an era when the bat holds the whip hand and hasn't quite managed to maintain an average of 50. Such is his talent I think there's a case to say he's probably slightly underperformed so far in his career but, without be arsed to check, I would imagine his record stacks up less favourably when compared to his peers than those of (say) Ranji or Sutcliffe, either of whom have cases at least as compelling as Compton's, IMHO.
I realise Herb was probably excluded because he's known primarily as an opener, but I personally think that's wrong-headed. If, for the sake of illustration, Tresco decided to return to the colours I doubt either Strauss or Cook would be most sweating on their places for the next test.
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BoyBrumby
Englishman
You think? I'd still say he'd be ahead of Bell & Collingwood in the pecking order.
zaremba
Cricketer Of The Year
Fair points, well made
fredfertang
Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
Actually I think that's a slightly different point - I look at just about every Lancashire player from the 70's and 80's through rose tinted spectacles eg I know Frank Hayes was in truth pretty average, rather than just as good if not better than David Gower, because I can look at the stats if I so choose, which I don't of course.
With the likes of Gower and Botham the rose tinted eyeglasses just aren't required (although a selective memory helps)
KP's selection is a complete farce, disgusting. Would definitely have Compton in ahead of him, or Gower, or Dexter, or many others.
I think Ranji ahead of Barrington isn't a bad shout either as he'd make this a much harder side to bowl to.
Don't see how you can leave out Sutcliffe from any team he's able to play in, even if it means squeezing him in the middle order somewhere. Surprised at Underwood's inclusion, surely Verity, Rhodes or Laker would get in ahead of him? Would also have Bedser or Statham ahead of Larwood, just because you irritate one team shouldn't mean you get in ahead of superior players, especially when taking on all comers.
I think Ranji ahead of Barrington isn't a bad shout either as he'd make this a much harder side to bowl to.
Don't see how you can leave out Sutcliffe from any team he's able to play in, even if it means squeezing him in the middle order somewhere. Surprised at Underwood's inclusion, surely Verity, Rhodes or Laker would get in ahead of him? Would also have Bedser or Statham ahead of Larwood, just because you irritate one team shouldn't mean you get in ahead of superior players, especially when taking on all comers.