Alderman slags off Giles

[Richard]

McGrath?

McGrath has taken 68 wickets in 11 matches.
Alderman took 83 in 12.
Yes, all right, Alderman bowled 594.2 overs (average of almost 50 per Test) and McGrath just 444.1 (average just over 40 per Test), but fact remains McGrath hasn't had Alderman's success - quite. Even if that is only because he hasn't had the opportunity.

 

[Richard]

A very good point TEC - comfortably the under-rated man in our attack.

Indeed? I'd say comfortably the non-rated man in the attack.
Fact is - who has mentioned him?
And you can't be underrated without having a rating.

 

[Richard]

what would you say if he took those 15 wickets as follows:

the score in the series is 1-0 to Australia with 2 to go

Harmison takes 10 in the fourth test,which basically wins the match for England

In the fifth, he gets none in the first innings, then takes 5 of the top order in the second to enable England to win the match and the series

His average, thanks to no wickets in the first 3 tests is 35.

Would you consider that sort of performance a success?

I reckon the guy would be a cricket legend if he did that!!!!

I reckon you need to be realistic.
What are the chances of that happening?
Has it EVER happened before? Probably not. Someone plays 5 consecutive Tests, takes 0, 0, 0, 10, 5? If he'd somehow managed not to be dropped after taking 0 wickets in 3 Tests (not to mention the low chances of England managing to be just 0-1 down in the first 3 Tests) the chances of doing so execrably poorly and then unbelievably well are close to zero anyway.

 

[FaaipDeOiad]

McGrath has taken 68 wickets in 11 matches.
Alderman took 83 in 12.
Yes, all right, Alderman bowled 594.2 overs (average of almost 50 per Test) and McGrath just 444.1 (average just over 40 per Test), but fact remains McGrath hasn't had Alderman's success - quite. Even if that is only because he hasn't had the opportunity.

I was more thinking in terms of the averages and impact on the series. McGrath's average in England is only 18.28 with a strike rate under 40.

 

[Richard]

Indeed - McGrath's average and strike-rate are both better.
Impact on the series? I'd say McGrath was one of several battering-rams in 2001 and had only maybe 1\5 or 1\6 of the credit for the series victory, and in 1997 played as big a part in winning a series as anyone will ever do.
But the fact is, Alderman is the only man ever to take 40 wickets in 2 separate series in the same country, and he certainly had a massive impact on both series, even if in the first he ended on the losing side. In the second, he turned a relatively average side into one that begun riding the crest of a wave that's still roaring on 16 years later.

 

[masterblaster]

I wholeheartedly agree with everything Richard has said in this thread so far about Giles, Alderman England and Simon Jones.

I dont come here all too often anymore, but thanks Richard for some very insightful comments. I think The Ashes are going to be extremely interesting and reading your comments only made me more interested. Keep up the good work and keep those comments interesting....

 

[social]

And I've said he's as good as Warne and Murali where?
I have, however, said he's almost as good on turning pitches as they are, though, and it's true.
You simply cannot take Giles' career as a whole and say "he's average", because the fact is there are two different bowlers depending on the circumstances. Giles on a non-turner is obviously rubbish and nothing close to the bowler Warne, Murali and Mushtaq Ahmed (pre-1999 version) are. But on a turner he's very, very good indeed.
On the only 2 occasions Giles and Murali have both bowled well on the same pitch Giles came out with 16 wickets at 21.81 and Murali with 19 at 11.42, and given that Sri Lanka are far more accomplished at handling spin than England I'd say the difference was only fairly marginal.

Their figures do little more than imply that the wickets were dreadful!

 

[Richard]

Not dreadful at all, there's nothing dreadful about the odd few wickets that turn, they're critical to maintain the game's essential fabrics.