Alastair Cook vs Graeme Smith

[sayon basak]

The better Opener?

 

[kyear2]

Graeme

 

[sayon basak]

Why is Graeme Smith rated this much higher that Alastair Cook, if I may ask?

 

[Coronis]

Why is Graeme Smith rated this much higher that Alastair Cook, if I may ask?

Strike rate

 

[Johan]

Cook.

better in Australia and India, and in Asia in general and was much better at home (45 vs 38 at home without minnows). Smith's record outside England and New Zealand is baffling.

 

[Betterpolo]

Both have gaps - Cook in NZ and SA seems strange - but Smith's record seems more mercurial. Both loved West Indies and cashed in against Bangladesh (Zimbabwe too in Smith's case). Do we give Smith some leeway for coming in as skipper so young and staying there for almost his whole career? Cook's record in India and Australia suggests something beyond ruthless accumulation. Kudos to all lefties who disprove the cliche of them all being elegant batters (as if there isn't enough evidence for this anyway).

 

[Bolo.]

Cook.

better in Australia and India, and in Asia in general and was much better at home (45 vs 38 at home without minnows). Smith's record outside England and New Zealand is baffling.

Why are so many people intent on discrediting Smith at home by posting stats without minnows? With or without minnows, he has some fairly middling stats in RSA.

And it's a bit weird to disqualify parts of someone's record in one country, considering how little difference this makes to his overall record.

 

[Johan]

Why are so many people intent on discrediting Smith at home by posting stats without minnows? With or without minnows, he has some fairly middling stats in RSA.

And it's a bit weird to disqualify parts of someone's record in one country, considering how little difference this makes to his overall record.

I generally remove minnow bashing from everyone's numbers so it's not just Smith or in RSA for me.

 

[Bolo.]

I generally remove minnow bashing from peveryone's numbers so it's not just Smith or in RSA for me.

Sure if you are doing this for everyone it's fine to remove minnows. It still leaves a contextless average in a single country.

A corollary to this criticism would be to rate Ashwin (almost?) ahead of Warne. Similar overall numbers, and if we are going to ignore the impact of home conditions, a much better home record.

 

[capt_Luffy]

Sure if you are doing this for everyone it's fine to remove minnows. It still leaves a contextless average in a single country.

A corollary to this criticism would be to rate Ashwin (almost?) ahead of Warne. Similar overall numbers, and if we are going to ignore the impact of home conditions, a much better home record.

I think a home country is more important than 'a single country'. Can call it context less, but you are supposed to play half of all your matches there; 34 vs non BangZimWI is kinda bad even accounting for conditions.

Re Ashwin and Warne; even accounting for conditions, Ashwin has a better home record. He probably has a better record than any bowler not named Murali (Imran and Steyn around equal). Warne is ahead because he has a multitude superior away record, and Ashwin relatively sucks away.

 

[Coronis]

I think a home country is more important than 'a single country'. Can call it context less, but you are supposed to play half of all your matches there; 34 vs non BangZimWI is kinda bad even accounting for conditions.

Re Ashwin and Warne; even accounting for conditions, Ashwin has a better home record. He probably has a better record than any bowler not named Murali (Imran and Steyn around equal). Warne is ahead because he has a multitude superior away record, and Ashwin relatively sucks away.

Other spinners in Ashwin’s home matches

979 @ 31.55

Ashwin

383 @ 21.57

Other spinners in Warne’s home matches

313 @ 42.12

Warne

319 @ 26.39

Decide for yourself who had a better home record

 

[capt_Luffy]

Other spinners in Ashwin’s home matches

979 @ 31.55

Ashwin

383 @ 21.57

Other spinners in Warne’s home matches

313 @ 42.12

Warne

319 @ 26.39

Decide for yourself who had a better home record

Ashwin. Other bowlers overall has much closer numbers to Warne.

 

[Coronis]

Ashwin. Other bowlers overall has much closer numbers to Warne.

Do you have reading comprehension issues?

 

[capt_Luffy]

Do you have reading comprehension issues?

Nope, but find the idea that Warne was better at home than Ashwin kinda fascinating...... He was then better than Murali as well, right?? How about you say Marshall wasn't close to Hadlee and post the average of the rest of their attacks in matches involving them.

 

[PlayerComparisons]

I like Ashwin but Warne was miles better at home

 

[Coronis]

Nope, but find the idea that Warne was better at home than Ashwin kinda fascinating...... He was then better than Murali as well, right?? How about you say Marshall wasn't close to Hadlee and post the average of the rest of their attacks in matches involving them.

Re Ashwin and Warne; even accounting for conditions, Ashwin has a better home record.

You’re the one who brought up accounting for conditions mate. All I did was post the stats. Don’t get mad if they don’t support your views.

Here lets have some more stats fun

Other spinners in Lyon’s home matches

214 @ 61.54

Lyon at home

262 @ 31.21

 

[capt_Luffy]

You’re the one who brought up accounting for conditions mate. All I did was post the stats. Don’t get mad if they don’t support your views.

Here lets have some more stats fun

Other spinners in Lyon’s home matches

214 @ 61.54

Lyon at home

262 @ 31.21

I stated accounting for conditions, that doesn't account for the other spinners being shite. It accounts for that despite adjusting to conditions, Ashwin's output is superior enough to be ahead of Warne.

In matches both Ashwin and Lyon played together in Australia:

Ashwin: 40 @42.42
Lyon: 32 @42.59

 

[kyear2]

I think a home country is more important than 'a single country'. Can call it context less, but you are supposed to play half of all your matches there; 34 vs non BangZimWI is kinda bad even accounting for conditions.

Re Ashwin and Warne; even accounting for conditions, Ashwin has a better home record. He probably has a better record than any bowler not named Murali (Imran and Steyn around equal). Warne is ahead because he has a multitude superior away record, and Ashwin relatively sucks away.

Even accounting for home conditions, really?

 

[Bolo.]

I think a home country is more important than 'a single country'. Can call it context less, but you are supposed to play half of all your matches there; 34 vs non BangZimWI is kinda bad even accounting for conditions.

Re Ashwin and Warne; even accounting for conditions, Ashwin has a better home record. He probably has a better record than any bowler not named Murali (Imran and Steyn around equal). Warne is ahead because he has a multitude superior away record, and Ashwin relatively sucks away.

OFC home is more important than some random country. It becomes increasingly less reliable as a better measure of quality the more you prune from it. It's just sample size and number of opponents that make it more reliable.

Nobody is claiming that Smith was good in RSA. With or without excluding any of his record. But nor were the oprning contemporaries from other countries he gets compared to. 34 is the highest average any of them had. Comparing averages without context makes Smith look better than he actually was at home relative to them.

Without going into which bowlers were better at home, what reason is there for your 'Warne better away' logic not applying to Smith?

 

[Johan]

Nobody is claiming that Smith was good in RSA. With or without excluding any of his record. But nor were the oprning contemporaries from other countries he gets compared to. 34 is the highest average any of them had. Comparing averages without context makes Smith look better than he actually was at home relative to them.

Without going into which bowlers were better at home, what reason is there for your 'Warne better away' logic not applying to Smith?

Luffy does have Smith above Cook, but Cook has advantage even away from Home in Australia and India. Smith's advantage is in New Zealand and England, it depends what you value more I guess, but Cook vs Smith away isn't the run away Victory one that Warne vs Ashwin away is.