Ajmal claims special concession to 15 degree rule allowed by ICC

[Daemon]

Definitely do not agree with 3).

The very fact his action sometimes looks worse

It's not a fact though, it's our opinion watching footage on tv without comparing a range of samples of his bowling coupled with some fancy technology used by lab geeks which we do not understand and are merely speculating on.

It may not be so clear cut and I can accept the idea that their technology may be flawed but there's just no comparison between that and the naked eye watching ~5 slow motions of his action per innings.

It's similar to the debates we once had regarding hawk eye in that sense, and we all know what the majority and (imo) correct opinion was on that matter.

Basically going on the points at hand I think there's a higher probablity that he's well within the rules. Just that these rules are ****.

 

[BeardofAmla]

The fact is you can chuck and still stay within the 15 degrees just by expanding sideways aka the javelin action.

 

[Furball]

Wrong on both counts. It was India's tour of Pakistan in 2006. First two matches were draws and not a peep from the Indians. In the third and final match, India lost by 300+ runs and Chappell whined.

If you're going to moan about someone's action, do it after winning. Otherwise:

We dial 999. That must be why we're stereotyped as whingers.

 

[kykweer.proteas]

Ok... So we won... Quite comfortably... Deteriorating wicket... And as I have been saying all along. Ajmal's doosra is an illegitimate throw. Doesn't not seem in bounds with the 15 degree rule, not that it might be 16 degrees but because he bends his arm likely close to 30 degrees. These are the facts deal with it.

 

[wellAlbidarned]

These are the facts.

No, that is speculation. Learn the difference.

 

[kykweer.proteas]

I'm in an industry where results should be repeatable where the results would be competent and repeatable. I just don't believe Ajmal can give these results. I'm just saying this as my uneducated opinion, his action might be applicable in match situations, but ITS NOT WITHOUT REASONABLE DOUBT, so why should some bowlers be subjectable to analysis by ICC and results can't be replicated by match situations, WHEN THERE IS DOUBT, just seems like a case where everyone is equal but some are just more equal lol

 

[Coronis]

Ok... So we won... Quite comfortably... Deteriorating wicket... And as I have been saying all along. Ajmal's doosra is an illegitimate throw. Doesn't not seem in bounds with the 15 degree rule, not that it might be 16 degrees but because he bends his arm likely close to 30 degrees. These are the facts deal with it.

Just because you claim something is a fact doesn't make it so. I'm more inclined to believe the experts who tested him over you, especially since, having watched him bowl, I see no problem with his action.

 

[Neil Pickup]

Ok... So we won... Quite comfortably... Deteriorating wicket... And as I have been saying all along. Ajmal's doosra is an illegitimate throw. Doesn't not seem in bounds with the 15 degree rule, not that it might be 16 degrees but because he bends his arm likely close to 30 degrees. These are the facts deal with it.

It's posts like these that really don't help reasoned debate on the issue.

Bending the arm is not throwing; straightening is.

 

[kykweer.proteas]

Just because you claim something is a fact doesn't make it so. I'm more inclined to believe the experts who tested him over you, especially since, having watched him bowl, I see no problem with his action.

I'm sure the ICC have set their own standards when testing to make sure bowlers are fine, but what standards measure these bowlers in match situations when there is doubt, no reasonable person can look at his doosra and say, "well, that's a straight arm, slightly bent".

Where is it stated that umpires MAY call a NO BALL if certain bowler sets OFF criteria whereby bowler throws the baLl. Its almost as if the bowler has free range because the umpires don't want to set off alarms to cause a scandal, that might prove the procedures followed by the ICC ineffective.

ILL say it again, let bowlers use a straight arm OR let them throw without limits. The 15 degree rule is a joke, its like saying, "yes murder is fine, if its in a painless manner, as proved in the laboratory"

 

[kykweer.proteas]

It's posts like these that really don't help reasoned debate on the issue.

Bending the arm is not throwing; straightening is.

Does the arm stay bent when the ball is delivered? If that's the case then there should be no problem, but if the arm goes from bent to straight in a sudden force, what then?

 

[Agent Nationaux]

I'm sure the ICC have set their own standards when testing to make sure bowlers are fine, but what standards measure these bowlers in match situations when there is doubt, no reasonable person can look at his doosra and say, "well, that's a straight arm, slightly bent".

Where is it stated that umpires MAY call a NO BALL if certain bowler sets OFF criteria whereby bowler throws the baLl. Its almost as if the bowler has free range because the umpires don't want to set off alarms to cause a scandal, that might prove the procedures followed by the ICC ineffective.

ILL say it again, let bowlers use a straight arm OR let them throw without limits. The 15 degree rule is a joke, its like saying, "yes murder is fine, if its in a painless manner, as proved in the laboratory"

 

[kykweer.proteas]

Well my solution would be to strap a device to the upper arm (bicep are) and forearm like an accelorometer, over an innings, that can calculate the arm angle of suspect bowlers, it may make a beep sound. Its just a suggestion, it would resolve a lot of confusion.

 

[wellAlbidarned]

I think a few researchers and companies are in the process of developing such a device, though it's still in infancy at this stage.

The reason Ajmal hasn't been called back for further testing is that no-one has observed anything to suggest that he's changed from the last testing. His improved performance is down to accuracy and planning, it's not like he's started turning it at right angles. It's okay to maintain suspicion, but only with actual reasoning behind it.

 

[hendrix]

I'm sure the ICC have set their own standards when testing to make sure bowlers are fine, but what standards measure these bowlers in match situations when there is doubt, no reasonable person can look at his doosra and say, "well, that's a straight arm, slightly bent".

Where is it stated that umpires MAY call a NO BALL if certain bowler sets OFF criteria whereby bowler throws the baLl. Its almost as if the bowler has free range because the umpires don't want to set off alarms to cause a scandal, that might prove the procedures followed by the ICC ineffective.

I believe the current method involves comparing the televised deliveries with those that have been tested in the lab to ensure that they are bowled with the same action.

I agree though, I think it is inadequate, and there needs to be some live equipment brought into play.

ILL say it again, let bowlers use a straight arm OR let them throw without limits. The 15 degree rule is a joke, its like saying, "yes murder is fine, if its in a painless manner, as proved in the laboratory"

here's where you and I differ quite a bit.

15 degrees is quite a small straightening. People with "conventional looking" actions often bowl close to the 15 degree limit without causing any speculation.

Then there are those with the less conventional actions that look like they're chucking but are actually working well within the legal confines.

 

[benchmark00]

There should be one person who decides what is and what is not a legal action. I'm happy enough for that person to be Bumbeh. What he says is final.

Don't let him arbitrate on a nose length competition though. Has no idea.

 

[Top_Cat]

Don't let him judge the swimsuit comp, a cm of fat will result in a searing rebuke.