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A Question No One Here Would Dare Ask

Black_Warrior

Cricketer Of The Year
Regarding the conversation on genetics and diet, they do play some role. People from the SC are in general not the fittest or athletic people. Just the number of international sports they can excel in is a good reflection of that. However, these things can be changed through change in diet, training, hard work etc. Wasim always says how Imran taught them things about diet and training and before that they had no idea about these things.

Pakistanis are just a unathletic and unfit as the rest of the SC people. Their fielding is a great argument for that. But cricket in general developed very differently in these countries and the culture is very different. The likes of Bedi and Prasanna became the heroes followed by Gavaskar and Amarnath in India, while Fazal was the hero for Imran's generation.

I am sure the emergence of Mustafiz will inspire a lot of young seam bowlers in BD now. When it comes to India, I think over the years they had quite a few seam bowlers with potential. They didn't go all the way and fulfill that potential for a number of reasons - laziness, lack of guidance, complacency etc.
Zaheer is a great example. He had everything when he started. Then around 2003-04 when he realized that there was no one challenging him, he became lazy, fat and unfit and this continued all the way through to 2006--07. I think the 07 England series is when we saw a different Zaheer who lasted until England 2011.

His career itself is a testament that fast bowling is as much about skill and it can be acquired with hard work, and lost with laziness.

A lot of the laziness has to do with people not being challenged for their positions. They know their place is guaranteed and they will get picked over and over again. A bowler like Ishant has played over 70 test matches. That's ridiculous. He should have been dropped a long time ago and someone else should have been invested in. Instead Ishant was the go to guy.
Wasim narrated this story about his KKR days when he asked Ishant to bowl a few overs and he said "sorry I am a niggle" whereas when asks the Pak bowlers to do anything, they'll do extra just to impress him so that they get an edge over the next guy.

These are very specific, controllable factors. They can easily be modified, worked on and improved.
 

cnerd123

likes this
Regarding the conversation on genetics and diet, they do play some role.
Gonna stop you there.

No one disagrees with that

The reason is that, in a country of 1 billion people, if you take the top 1% of people with the best genetics/diets for a fast bowler, you still have 10 million people

The entire population of Australia is 23 million.

There are clearly deeper, underlying issues with the cricketing structures and culture in place in India. Genetics and diet are not the main factor.
 

Jono

Virat Kohli (c)
Gonna stop you there.

No one disagrees with that

The reason is that, in a country of 1 billion people, if you take the top 1% of people with the best genetics/diets for a fast bowler, you still have 10 million people

The entire population of Australia is 23 million.

There are clearly deeper, underlying issues with the cricketing structures and culture in place in India. Genetics and diet are not the main factor.
Yeah its amazing that people can't get that through their head. Not every bloody Indian is a vegetarian.

Its far more an issue of role models / culture of what a successful cricketer is. Every kid in India wants to grab the bat and be Tendulkar or Sehwag or Kohli. Not Zaheer.
 

GIMH

Norwood's on Fire
Yeah its amazing that people can't get that through their head. Not every bloody Indian is a vegetarian.

Its far more an issue of role models / culture of what a successful cricketer is. Every kid in India wants to grab the bat and be Tendulkar or Sehwag or Kohli. Not Zaheer.
Why did you have **** fast bowlers before Sachin then? :ph34r:
 

harsh.ag

Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
Why did you have **** fast bowlers before Sachin then? :ph34r:
Gavaskar.

Before that they tried to model themselves on the English who only had Trueman in 80 odd years. Not hard to see what happened.

If anything else, this should be about how ****** English pacers have been despite the awesome conditions and no shortage of resources.
 

cnerd123

likes this
Gavaskar.

Before that they tried to model themselves on the English who only had Trueman in 80 odd years. Not hard to see what happened.

If anything else, this should be about how ****** English pacers have been despite the awesome conditions and no shortage of resources.
I wonder why one nation produces all these great legspinners and the other nothing.

Must be diet and genetics
 

Adders

Cricketer Of The Year
It is as if people arent aware that India is one of, if not the largest beef exporter in the world:

Well if they want to have good fast bowlers perhaps they should be eating that beef instead of giving it away:ph34r:
 

Burgey

Request Your Custom Title Now!
Yeah its amazing that people can't get that through their head. Not every bloody Indian is a vegetarian.

Its far more an issue of role models / culture of what a successful cricketer is. Every kid in India wants to grab the bat and be Tendulkar or Sehwag or Kohli. Not Zaheer.
That's because Zaheer was good for about 2-3 years and otherwise was awful.

The other role model would have been Sreesanth, and I mean, come on. He bowled one good bouncer in his career abd people used to post footage of it on here as proof he was a good bowler.
 

vcs

Request Your Custom Title Now!
Regarding the conversation on genetics and diet, they do play some role. People from the SC are in general not the fittest or athletic people. Just the number of international sports they can excel in is a good reflection of that. However, these things can be changed through change in diet, training, hard work etc. Wasim always says how Imran taught them things about diet and training and before that they had no idea about these things.

Pakistanis are just a unathletic and unfit as the rest of the SC people. Their fielding is a great argument for that. But cricket in general developed very differently in these countries and the culture is very different. The likes of Bedi and Prasanna became the heroes followed by Gavaskar and Amarnath in India, while Fazal was the hero for Imran's generation.

I am sure the emergence of Mustafiz will inspire a lot of young seam bowlers in BD now. When it comes to India, I think over the years they had quite a few seam bowlers with potential. They didn't go all the way and fulfill that potential for a number of reasons - laziness, lack of guidance, complacency etc.
Zaheer is a great example. He had everything when he started. Then around 2003-04 when he realized that there was no one challenging him, he became lazy, fat and unfit and this continued all the way through to 2006--07. I think the 07 England series is when we saw a different Zaheer who lasted until England 2011.

His career itself is a testament that fast bowling is as much about skill and it can be acquired with hard work, and lost with laziness.

A lot of the laziness has to do with people not being challenged for their positions. They know their place is guaranteed and they will get picked over and over again. A bowler like Ishant has played over 70 test matches. That's ridiculous. He should have been dropped a long time ago and someone else should have been invested in. Instead Ishant was the go to guy.
Wasim narrated this story about his KKR days when he asked Ishant to bowl a few overs and he said "sorry I am a niggle" whereas when asks the Pak bowlers to do anything, they'll do extra just to impress him so that they get an edge over the next guy.

These are very specific, controllable factors. They can easily be modified, worked on and improved.
Complacency and lack of competition is probably a factor in general, but in Ishant's case, I never doubt his commitment to the cause.. only his intelligence and skill. Guy is a complete workhorse, bowls long spells and a large reason for why he's been a constant in the Indian team is because he stays fit and can be relied upon not to break down when asked to play the holding role in unhelpful conditions.
 

Jono

Virat Kohli (c)
That's because Zaheer was good for about 2-3 years and otherwise was awful.

The other role model would have been Sreesanth, and I mean, come on. He bowled one good bouncer in his career abd people used to post footage of it on here as proof he was a good bowler.
you're backing up my point, yeah? There haven't been any genuine fast bowling heroes for them to look up to,
 

Zinzan

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I must admit I used to just assume Pakistanis had broader shoulders and were more solidly built than Indians (generally speaking) when I first starting watching cricket. This wasn't supported by any empirical evidence, it just looked that way to me.
 

Jono

Virat Kohli (c)
I must admit I used to just assume Pakistanis had broader shoulders and were more solidly built than Indians (generally speaking) when I first starting watching cricket. This wasn't supported by any empirical evidence, it just looked that way to me.
I think there is probably truth to that, but the idea that you can't find 3 broad shouldered bowlers in a population the size of India over a 20 year period seems pretty unlikely... The majority of these broad shouldered ****s aren't choosing to bowl.
 

Black_Warrior

Cricketer Of The Year
Gonna stop you there.

No one disagrees with that

The reason is that, in a country of 1 billion people, if you take the top 1% of people with the best genetics/diets for a fast bowler, you still have 10 million people

The entire population of Australia is 23 million.

There are clearly deeper, underlying issues with the cricketing structures and culture in place in India. Genetics and diet are not the main factor.
which part of the sentence 'they do play some role' contradicts that statement? Looks like you stopped reading as well because the rest of the post talked about culture and underlying factors
 
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