A question about Ryder

[Retox]

Is a he OD opener and a FC middle order or does he open in both forms?

Also does anyone have info on how well the Black Caps who are playing in the county champs are going?

 

[archie mac]

I thought this was going to be about Jack Ryder, and became very excited

 

[marc71178]

You're a very strange man

 

[archie mac]

That's because I practise

 

[James]

Is a he OD opener and a FC middle order or does he open in both forms?

He opens in both forms of the game for Wellington, but struggles in the domestic limited overs competition. Only averages mid 20's I believe while averaging mid 40's in first class cricket.

 

[Tim]

James is right, Ryder's OD record is pretty average yet it seems when he steps up to NZ 'A' or Academy level, he scores runs.

He bats around #4 for Wellington in the 4 dayers, but I wouldn't rule him out as a FC opener either.

As far as NZ'landers in the County matches go. I think Hamish Marshall has scored 3 FC centuries for Glouc's so far, McCullum has been a great replacement for Cosgrove at Glamorgan, he's scored a few runs and Franklin has been doing alot with both bat and ball too.
I think the only player who would be disappointed would be Astle, he's scored very little for Lancashire.

 

[Matt52]

He opens in both forms of the game for Wellington, but struggles in the domestic limited overs competition. Only averages mid 20's I believe while averaging mid 40's in first class cricket.

I dont think thats right......He opens in One dayers but in 4-day games he drops down the order to 4 or 5. I cant remember him opening in 4 day games. Its a shame. NZ desperately need some talented opening batsmen for tests. (Not that we play tests anymore. )

The Kiwi's are doing alright in the UK. Marshall is averaging 60 or so for Gloucestershire, and McCullum is about the same for Glamorgan, (only a few games mind you). All the latest scores are on the bbc sport website. Fleming is with Nottinghamshire. Styris is with Middlesex. Astle is with Lancashire. Franklin and McCullum are in Glamorgan, and Marshall and Spearman are with Gloucestershire. Just go to BBC cricket homepage, find "counties" and all the latest scores are there.

 

[James]

My mistake, Ryder does bat at 4/5 for Wellington in first class cricket. Perhaps he should bat there in limited overs cricket too?

 

[armchairumpire]

I dont think thats right......He opens in One dayers but in 4-day games he drops down the order to 4 or 5. I cant remember him opening in 4 day games. Its a shame. NZ desperately need some talented opening batsmen for tests. (Not that we play tests anymore. )

The Kiwi's are doing alright in the UK. Marshall is averaging 60 or so for Gloucestershire, and McCullum is about the same for Glamorgan, (only a few games mind you). All the latest scores are on the bbc sport website. Fleming is with Nottinghamshire. Styris is with Middlesex. Astle is with Lancashire. Franklin and McCullum are in Glamorgan, and Marshall and Spearman are with Gloucestershire. Just go to BBC cricket homepage, find "counties" and all the latest scores are there.

If you want a quick roundup of Blackcaps playing in county cricket then look regularly at

http://www.blackcaps.co.nz/ezine.aspx?pri=105

 

[NZTailender]

I dont think thats right......He opens in One dayers but in 4-day games he drops down the order to 4 or 5. I cant remember him opening in 4 day games. Its a shame. NZ desperately need some talented opening batsmen for tests. (Not that we play tests anymore. )

The Kiwi's are doing alright in the UK. Marshall is averaging 60 or so for Gloucestershire, and McCullum is about the same for Glamorgan, (only a few games mind you). All the latest scores are on the bbc sport website. Fleming is with Nottinghamshire. Styris is with Middlesex. Astle is with Lancashire. Franklin and McCullum are in Glamorgan, and Marshall and Spearman are with Gloucestershire. Just go to BBC cricket homepage, find "counties" and all the latest scores are there.

Don't forget Lou at Worcs. He's been going alright in the one day matches...

 

[Retox]

Here was me hoping we had found ONE opener.

Seems Marshall is doing well not opening.

Thank you all.

 

[NZTailender]

It's funny (or frustrating) how we have a plethora of one day openers and yet none of them are openers in the longer form of the game (except How?)

 

[Retox]

It's funny (or frustrating) how we have a plethora of one day openers and yet none of them are openers in the longer form of the game (except How?)

How and Papps, But our coach would have to want to play two openers.

I'm really annoyed that we haven't been working on our biggest problem openers.

 

[Matt52]

The problem is that How and papps wouldn't be ranked among the top 6 batsmen in the country, Maybe not even the top 10 or 12 IMO. I like Fulton in the opening position. He is someone that deserves to be in the team on merit and having him open is a bonus to free up a middle order spot.

Yeah hamish is doing really well not opening, but its so tempting to put him up the order to open to free up another middle order spot. Both Marshall and Fulton are better IMO than How or Papps.

Can't we just put our bowlers in first and play everyone in the middle order. Play Hamish at 3 , Fleming at 3.5, Vincent at 4, Ryder at 4.5 and so on..........

 

[Tim]

How and Papps not even in the top 10 or 12 in the country? you're kidding me right?

 

[Matt52]

How and Papps not even in the top 10 or 12 in the country? you're kidding me right?

Maybe I was exagerating a little........or maybe..... Fleming, Astle, McMillan, Vincent, Marshall, Fulton, Styris, Taylor, Ryder, Oram....( thats 10 already),

How might come in at 11. Papps.....I dont know,, further down.................I still havent mentioned Rob Nicol who is a good player.Oh, and Brendon McCullum would be better too (than Papps), regardless of his wicketkeeping.

I was thinking about straight out talent for the game regardless of where they bat in the order. Just IMO

 

[Matt52]

Oh...and I forgot Sinclair. He would be in that top group so that means How would be ranked 12th and Papps further down again........

 

[Retox]

I would rather Fulton/Marshall not play unless they are in the middle order. This isn't county cricket you can't just put someone who isn't an opener to open

We have two really decent openers in How And Papps. If New Zealand ever wants to become a good test nation (we have the talent) we need to play people in areas where they are best. It would be ok if we didn't have how/papps so we had to make these middle order players openers but we have two young,talented openers. Why not use them?


Opener
Opener
Middle Order
Middle Order
Middle Order
Middle Order
All Rounder
Keeper
Bowler
Bowler
Bowler

And if you think of the players you could have in these middle order spots (Astle,Vincent,Flem,Fulton,Styris,Ryder,Marshall) You have 6-7 players fighting for 3-4 spots (may wish to player another bowler)

The problem is that How and papps wouldn't be ranked among the top 6 batsmen in the country, Maybe not even the top 10 or 12 IMO. I like Fulton in the opening position. He is someone that deserves to be in the team on merit and having him open is a bonus to free up a middle order spot.

Thats fine, But he will suffer as an opener he was drafted in to play as a number 3 or 4. Not some half bit opener. I'm pretty sure (like marshall) if you played them in the middle order they would score runs

 

[Matt52]

I agree that Marshall and Fulton would both make more runs in the middle order but we have plenty of players for those spots.

I admit that Marshall's form in county cricket at no.3 is pretty convincing. I like him as a player and think he should be in the team.

I still think Fulton is a better option to open than How or Papps. How.....I think should be given a go. But I dont think Papps is good enough. On that tour to South Africa recently he really struggled.

Other countries have moved players up to open and it has been pretty successful.. Justin Langer for Australia was a no.3 but he turned out alright didnt he, as an opener. Sehwag for India was a middle order player put up to open. And our best opener over the past wee while, (Richardson) was a spin bowler, until he decided to apply himself to opening the batting. It can also work the other way, with that Hussey guy from Aus who was an opener but turned himself into a pretty good middle order player. I think people can learn new roles in a batting order and some can't (Vincent). I think its worth trying.

If someone is clearly a better player but not an opener then I think he should be given a go. I agree with your team list thingy.....Opener, Opener, Middle order etc..... but who's to say that in a year's time, after playing there consistently, we might all consider Peter Fulton an opening batsman. I mean, you are not born an opening batsman, are you? You learn the role.

 

[Tim]

Right now I wouldn't mind seeing this team have a go...perhaps if we replace the West Indies next month in South-east Asia.

Vincent
Ryder
Astle
Fleming
Fulton
Styris
McCullum
Vettori
Franklin
Mills
Gillespie

Subs: Jeetan Patel, H.Marshall, Ross Taylor, Andre Adams, Jamie How.

Bond & Oram would almost certainly miss this tri-series, so there is no point considering them.