38th Match - India v England

[cnerd123]

People are finally just waking up to what he has always been. An overrated egomaniac.

oh are we talking about Burgey now?

 

[sledger]

Post reported.

 

[Spikey]

i woke up with 10 overs to go and thought about watching but i went back to sleep because i figured they couldn't score 100 runs in 10 overs

 

[J_C]

Comparisons with Bevan were good until about 2015 or so. Dhoni had never lost a game while chasing while staying not out until about then. Since then it's an entirely different story.

He still has a insane record in that respect. Of the 50 times that he's finished not out while chasing, India have won 47 games, tied 1 and lost 2 (including yesterday's game). Just for comparison, Australia lost 5 out of the 30 games when Bevan was not out while chasing.

Of course, there are a lot of other ********* knocks he's played where he just got out right at the end after messing up the chase .

 

[Malcolm]

Since CWC15, MSD averages 18 or so at 75 in 300 plus chasing.

 

[sunilz]

I can't think of anyone else who did that, being not out at the end and still losing. Bevan's the guy Dhoni is often compared to (albeit from a different era in regards to quantity of run scoring), but I don't recall Bevan losing games while batting right to the end. If Australia lost Bevan was usually out well before the end.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y1oO6KvVTP4

IIRC Bevan was permanently dropped after this series

 

[sunilz]

Comparisons with Bevan were good until about 2015 or so. Dhoni had never lost a game while chasing while staying not out until about then. Since then it's an entirely different story.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N0Mr5WbJEow

Now i feel Dhoni as a finisher has been highly over-rated . Most of his great knocks have come when Yuvraj and Raina used to do the difficult work . In my ATXI now Rohit replaces Gilchrist as opener and Gilchrist comes at no.6 instead of Dhoni.

 

[ankitj]

He still has a insane record in that respect. Of the 50 times that he's finished not out while chasing, India have won 47 games, tied 1 and lost 2 (including yesterday's game). Just for comparison, Australia lost 5 out of the 30 games when Bevan was not out while chasing.

Of course, there are a lot of other ********* knocks he's played where he just got out right at the end after messing up the chase .

Precisely why average in wins is a **** metric. Ignores all the games where the player ****ed up and team lost. So is matches won when batsman stayed not out.

 

[Pup Clarke]

I don’t know if any of the teams will do much more Han tinker with their line ups from here on in, batting injury. They’ll back the blokes who’ve got them to the finals.

I agree with this, and predict that Karthik won't get any game-time, but think they may go with Jadeja. There's no way India are leaving out Dhoni now

 

[Niall]

I don't know what to do with Dhoni lads. I mean he wont be dropped so lets not go there.

I don't want him batting in the last ten overs whether chasing or trying to put a big score on the board.....but I don't want the guy at 4 either as ultimately someone like Jadhav is better at rotating strike and if off to a flyer,,,Id rather a hitter like Pandya/Pant there.

Its a mystery.

 

[ankitj]

Dhoni is good at not getting out. That should have some use. Like if you are 10/2 in 5 overs.

 

[artvandalay]

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/1999/may/31/cricketworldcup1999.cricketworldcup5

Australia pull fast one with go-slow
By Matthew Engel

Mon 31 May 1999 22.04 BST First published on Mon 31 May 1999 22.04 BST


The day England disappeared from the World Cup also turned out to be the day the tournament disappeared up its own rear end. Some have thought the complexities of the qualification system unfathomable. Yesterday the Australians fathomed them, and the result was a dreadful and shameful game of cricket.

Australia are now in the Super Six, and they may well have taken the West Indians with them - at the expense of New Zealand. The problem was that once it was clear Australia were bound to win, it suited both teams for them to do so as slowly as possible. The Aussies had to win inside 47.2 overs to go through. They were always likely to do this after they had bowled West Indies out for 110 and got within 19 of victory with almost half their overs left. Then they stamped on the brakes. The game maundered on for another 13 overs, with neither team trying to end it.


Australia wanted to stop New Zealand, not out of some atavistic bit of regional hatred (though there's a bit of spikiness there) but because of the peculiar workings of the Super Six. A few days ago the consensus was that the system being used in this tournament was all rather elegant; its downside has now been exposed. Remember that teams who qualify carry through results against the opponents who go through with them. Because Australia beat West Indies but lost to New Zealand they want the team they beat to qualify. Got that?

This event being in the Information Stone Age, most spectators won't have done. As you would expect, Steve Waugh did. Ruthlessly, heedlessly, he and Michael Bevan drove almost half the crowd towards the exits and sent the rest into chants of "boring". Later, both he and Brian Lara admitted trying to use the rules to their advantage but they denied collusion - angrily, in Lara's case. Steve Rixon, the New Zealand coach, said he would have done the same in Waugh's shoes. But he is an Aussie, after all.

Rixon's men are now faced with a fiendish set of calculations affecting their game against Scotland today. The point of the tactics at Old Trafford was to make their task as hard as possible by improving West Indies' overall differential. New Zealand probably now have to win by something between 110 and 120 runs if they bat first, and to get their runs in less than 25 overs if they bat second.

It's not quite as simple as that, but life is short. This is nothing to do with Messrs Duckworth and Lewis but something to do with Messrs Net and Runrate. As if cricket wasn't complicated enough. The football World Cup realised years ago that the last matches of qualification groups need to be played simultaneously. The most amusing outcome will be West Indies getting through, striking form and stuffing Australia in the semi-final.

It's hard to imagine that, though. The poor devils who paid to watch this (forgoing Manchester City) got freezing cold and no apologies. They did see Australia's best bowling performance of the tournament. Glenn McGrath, who had chafed as first change, was handed the new ball again and used it to devastating effect, culminating in a ball that jagged sharply to bowl Lara for nine.

Shane Warne was also something closer to his old self. Bowling from the end that produced The Ball (the one that bowled Mike Gatting here in 1993), he even found one of his flippers, which have been elusive of late, to get Reon King.

As batsmen came and went, Ridley Jacobs stood at the other end and became the first player ever to carry his bat in the World Cup. Jacobs is becoming the anchor of the rickety West Indian ship. He did not attempt to compromise his position by attempting anything reckless, like scoring runs.

The West Indian rate was barely above two an over, and it was not wholly clear where uselessness ended and manipulation began. There was no particular advantage in their batsmen staying out there for the sake of it so theirs was probably just wretched batting. Oh, those carefree Caribbean strokemakers!

The undoubted deliberate blocking came later. Call it immorality if you like, or call it professionalism, but don't call it cricket.

So this happened in 99? I dont remember the furore around it that well.

 

[harsh.ag]

Terrible incentives.

 

[tooextracool]

This was one of the major shortcomings of the Super Six format and thankfully it was binned not long after.

 

[_00_deathscar]

I don't know what to do with Dhoni lads. I mean he wont be dropped so lets not go there.

"Injured" in training? Saves face for everyone..

 

[Cruxdude]

That was a tough game to watch. You just cannot chase 338 on a slow pitch from 28 in 10 overs. We were just too far behind from that point on to seriously have a chance at winning especially considering how slow the pitch was at the end. Dhoni playing for the not out was so hard to watch. Denying a single in the last over when they needed a million runs was just plain old bullshit. Rahul at the top is just not right with Rohit also going slow at the beginning. As others are saying maybe just open with Pant and get Rahul to 4. Think we should just not go with 2 spinners when the boundaries are so small on one side.

 

[Fusion]

That was tough to watch as a Pakistani fan, hoping and rooting for Dhoni and Company to slog and give it a go. But, if Pakistan didn't want to rely on Dhoni/India to get them to the semis then they should have beaten Dhoni/India when they played them head-to-head (and not losing to WI would have been nice as well).

 

[morgieb]

Comparisons with Bevan were good until about 2015 or so. Dhoni had never lost a game while chasing while staying not out until about then. Since then it's an entirely different story.

In Bevan's case it helps he got dropped before he could Dhoni it up.

 

[the big bambino]

Dhoni has to consider the damage to his long term reputation. He doesn’t realise that CW will have to exclude him from ATG ODI XIs. The loss of this prestigious selection should motivate him to retire before he does even more damage to his reputation or pull his finger out.

 

[TheJediBrah]

Dhoni is good at not getting out. That should have some use. Like if you are 10/2 in 5 overs.

Bit late if you're already all out for 2