2024–25 NZ domestic season

[ataraxia]

Was that third umpire call of no ball (the ball was off the pitch but well past the wickets) a complete clanger or am I missing something?

 

[Chewie]

It should IMO, at least to some extent.

why?

 

[_Ed_]

why?

Not sure really - I guess I feel like bad batting should always have some consequences! (And good bowling to be rewarded)

But it seems a bit unequal in terms of the stage of the innings that the rain arrives - what if it's within the first couple of overs?

 

[Chewie]

If it's in the first few overs, then the adjustment normally isn't much because the team didn't spend much time thinking they had longer to bat (depending on how many overs difference there is). The actual adjustment will depend on how many wickets they had lost by that point in time and how many overs reduced the game is.

 

[Neil Young]

Wellington could finish first or last. Good comp.

 

[RMBolton]

I'm pretty sure I read an op-ed from Cairns talking about this last year.

I can't say I agree with him. I'll happily admit that I've always been biased on this matter, & I'm heavily against any involvement with the BBL because I fundamentally don't think it's worth taking a wrecking ball to what we have. He's expecting NZC to put that wrecking ball to it, to have SS as a feeder comp if not outright destroyed. I'm sorry, I can't ever support it.
There's a legitimate issue around making Super Smash the best it can be (& I think there is potential in it), but I think that becoming an appendage to the BBL does no good for it & a whole lot of bad.
If I can be frank, Cairns sounded a little out of touch: the fact he kept referring to Canterbury as the Wizards (OK, they were when he played for them, but they've been the Kings for a decade now) & him finding it easier to watch the BBL when SS is in its 2nd season fully FTA actually made me wonder if he even lives in NZ these days. It would make more sense if he didn't. It would also go along with him wanting NZ players being counted as locals in the BBL.

I'm also sick & tired of this attitude a lot of people have that we need to suck up to them or work with them - stuff CA, we don't need them. To me it smacks of a cricketing cultural cringe, the constant comparisons with what Australia has got which will always be unfavourable.

 

[_Ed_]

Yeah, I don't think there'd be much to gain. I wouldn't mind an annual game or series between the two winners, but that's about as far as I'd like it to go.

 

[SteveNZ]

CA aren't interested in us for the Big Bash. Our market isn't lucrative to them, any addition to their TV rights would be negligible compared to their spend on it. It ain't going to happen, Cairns is a businessman...he should be able to get his head around that.

 

[SteveNZ]

I'll tell you one thing I don't understand about modern cricket, is that somehow the fielding standards seem to have gone down - most notably the catching. And that's undoubtedly anecdotal, but I truly believe it. New Zealand's catching over the past two years has been incredibly inconsistent, the nadir obviously being the first Test v England and they were also dire in Sri Lanka, the T20 series v Australia last year and so on. OK, they caught well mostly in India, but I would label that side a sub-par, nearing poor catching side.

Then I watch Auckland last night, and they drop a bunch of catches, including Mark Chapman who - hell of a player and great guy - seems to lack basic confidence in his catching. This guy is a professional cricketer. He could catch balls until bed time, in fact that's his stock and trade. He sees the ball for a living when batting (he's not Chris Martin). I just honestly don't get it. No one could convince me that the standard of catching in professional cricket has gone down, and surely it should have gone the other way. They are fitter, can play a reverse ramp better, the ground fielding is better, but I have no confidence when a ball goes up (STRAIGHT UP) or into a cordon in this country.

Conversely, CD caught brilliantly last night and won the game on fine margins as a result.

 

[thierry henry]

I'm pretty sure I read an op-ed from Cairns talking about this last year.

I can't say I agree with him. I'll happily admit that I've always been biased on this matter, & I'm heavily against any involvement with the BBL because I fundamentally don't think it's worth taking a wrecking ball to what we have. He's expecting NZC to put that wrecking ball to it, to have SS as a feeder comp if not outright destroyed. I'm sorry, I can't ever support it.
There's a legitimate issue around making Super Smash the best it can be (& I think there is potential in it), but I think that becoming an appendage to the BBL does no good for it & a whole lot of bad.
If I can be frank, Cairns sounded a little out of touch: the fact he kept referring to Canterbury as the Wizards (OK, they were when he played for them, but they've been the Kings for a decade now) & him finding it easier to watch the BBL when SS is in its 2nd season fully FTA actually made me wonder if he even lives in NZ these days. It would make more sense if he didn't. It would also go along with him wanting NZ players being counted as locals in the BBL.

I'm also sick & tired of this attitude a lot of people have that we need to suck up to them or work with them - stuff CA, we don't need them. To me it smacks of a cricketing cultural cringe, the constant comparisons with what Australia has got which will always be unfavourable.

Just anecdotally, among my fairly hardcore cricket fan mates (indoor cricket mates, outdoor cricket mates, separate but overlapping groups) there seems to be a dismissive attitude towards SS across the board and a sickeningly fawning attitude towards the BBL.

Prior to the season even starting one (otherwise generally sane and smart) guy completely wrote off the SS in an aggressive way, almost as if it's existence infuriated him. These same guys love the Black Caps, but beyond that it's like there's this underlying shame and disgust towards our domestic cricket and our cricketers. It's this very deep-seated cultural cringe that, even though we hate the Aussies, Aussie cricketers are somehow just better than ours.

I've occasionally tried to argue this point, because honestly it only takes a cursory look at the quality of BBL and SS squads this year to see that there's no great gulf in quality at all. You just can't get through to people though. Part of it is definitely just the small crowds and low key presentation of SS vs the loud crowds and slick coverage of the BBL, and the time of BBL matches also tends to fit in perfectly with the "put the kids to bed and watch a lazy couple of hours of TV" timeslot. Nevertheless, it does depress me how these 40 year old men are so easily conned by a combination of slick coverage and cultural cringe/self-loathing.

 

[Bahnz]

One of the big problems for the super smash is that it's milk shake is getting increasingly slurped up by other T20 leagues. When guys like Seifert, Milne, Ferguson, Kugz (no great loss obvz but he's still a very high quality domestic cricketer) and Allen just **** off (not to mention guys like Conway, KW and Boult) it is naturally going to deflate public interest in the event. That's where CSA definitely made a very smart choice (even if it lead to ridiculous consequences last year) to make it a requirement that contracted players have to participate in the SA20 comp. These are the people the public recognise and want to watch play. We may all geek out about the promise of guys like Heaphy, Fisher, Jacobs, Boyle etc, and we may enjoy the absurd dominance of domestic stalwarts like Bruce, but the casual fan doesn't know them and doesn't care about them. They care about the Blackcaps (core and fringe), and that's what will draw them in to watch. That and a slicker, more professional package as previously mentioned.

 

[ataraxia]

Another fundamental problem with integrating two NZ teams into the BBL is that they'd just dominate lol.

Latham +
Bowes / M Boyle
Foxcroft
Mitchell
G Phillips
Clarkson
Foulkes
Jamieson
Henry
Sodhi
Duffy

 

[RMBolton]

One of the big problems for the super smash is that it's milk shake is getting increasingly slurped up by other T20 leagues. When guys like Seifert, Milne, Ferguson, Kugz (no great loss obvz but he's still a very high quality domestic cricketer) and Allen just **** off (not to mention guys like Conway, KW and Boult) it is naturally going to deflate public interest in the event. That's where CSA definitely made a very smart choice (even if it lead to ridiculous consequences last year) to make it a requirement that contracted players have to participate in the SA20 comp. These are the people the public recognise and want to watch play. We may all geek out about the promise of guys like Heaphy, Fisher, Jacobs, Boyle etc, and we may enjoy the absurd dominance of domestic stalwarts like Bruce, but the casual fan doesn't know them and doesn't care about them. They care about the Blackcaps (core and fringe), and that's what will draw them in to watch. That and a slicker, more professional package as previously mentioned.

From memory, they already do require them to play/be available. It's why some have started handing in contracts/going casual.

 

[ataraxia]

Funny end to the season, this. If Wellington win, they'll play against ND again two days later on the same venue. If ND win, Canterbury will have to fly over to play ND at the Basin.

Speaking from my non-impartial POV, it would be amazing if it could be a bumper weekend for the Firebirds (and the Blaze tagging along for two or three games). Meanwhile, ND hardly give a toss about today's game – Santner's not playing, at least.

 

[Bahnz]

Rubbish weather today, good chance it'll be rained out.

 

[Flem274*]

beyond that it's like there's this underlying shame and disgust towards our domestic cricket and our cricketers. It's this very deep-seated cultural cringe that, even though we hate the Aussies, Aussie cricketers are somehow just better than ours.

40 year old men are so easily conned by a combination of slick coverage and cultural cringe/self-loathing.

This is also a strong contribution to why we get blanked by any aus team like they're Waughs side and we're the Isle of Man.

 

[_Ed_]

Just spotted Hannah Darlington in the Blaze line-up today - another pretty impressive addition from across the ditch.

It strikes me as a little odd that some teams are bringing in stacks of overseas talent (also ND with Chamari, Sarah Glenn and AJ Wellington, and Canterbury with Pandey and Penna), while the likes of Auckland seemingly aren't even trying.

 

[RMBolton]

Just spotted Hannah Darlington in the Blaze line-up today - another pretty impressive addition from across the ditch.

It strikes me as a little odd that some teams are bringing in stacks of overseas talent (also ND with Chamari, Sarah Glenn and AJ Wellington, and Canterbury with Pandey and Penna), while the likes of Auckland seemingly aren't even trying.

Yeah, she got rushed in after Devine took her break. I've noticed that dating back to Harris & Knott in 2022-3, the Blaze's signings tend to be linked to Kerr in some fashion (former Spark Darlington a 2nd degree signing, as a NSW teammate/co-podcast host with Brown).
The likes of Canterbury tend to run on which WNCL team is on a bye & recruit there, while I'm not sure if the Hearts were even interested.

 

[RMBolton]

Just anecdotally, among my fairly hardcore cricket fan mates (indoor cricket mates, outdoor cricket mates, separate but overlapping groups) there seems to be a dismissive attitude towards SS across the board and a sickeningly fawning attitude towards the BBL.

Prior to the season even starting one (otherwise generally sane and smart) guy completely wrote off the SS in an aggressive way, almost as if it's existence infuriated him. These same guys love the Black Caps, but beyond that it's like there's this underlying shame and disgust towards our domestic cricket and our cricketers. It's this very deep-seated cultural cringe that, even though we hate the Aussies, Aussie cricketers are somehow just better than ours.

I've occasionally tried to argue this point, because honestly it only takes a cursory look at the quality of BBL and SS squads this year to see that there's no great gulf in quality at all. You just can't get through to people though. Part of it is definitely just the small crowds and low key presentation of SS vs the loud crowds and slick coverage of the BBL, and the time of BBL matches also tends to fit in perfectly with the "put the kids to bed and watch a lazy couple of hours of TV" timeslot. Nevertheless, it does depress me how these 40 year old men are so easily conned by a combination of slick coverage and cultural cringe/self-loathing.

Yeah, I've experienced some of the cricketing cultural cringe myself from folks I know. It's not something I've ever understood, but I can't deny it's there.

I've always believed that the big thing is profile, go hard on promotion & hope that lifts up crowds & interest more generally. The fact it's all over the TV during the holidays should be some help, surely. It's a more longterm thing, though; it's got to be built up, & will take time.
Auckland is such a shitshow, this should be the place that draws the largest crowds but it's just terrible. Imagine getting to the point where the Aces & Hearts have to go inside Eden Park simply because they keep selling out No.2 & they have no other options? That's when you know it's going well.

Just with numbers, I think that an aspirational target would be for the Basin/Hagley to draw regular crowds of 5,000, Auckland slightly more, & a bit less at the smaller venues. I'm probably a bit off even as an aspirational goal, but hey it's something to aim for