• Welcome to the Cricket Web forums, one of the biggest forums in the world dedicated to cricket.

    You are currently viewing our boards as a guest which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our free community you will have access to post topics, respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free so please, join the Cricket Web community today!

    If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact us.

12 Players and Substitutions?!

Sanz

Hall of Fame Member
ICC agrees to bold makeover
By Christopher Martin-Jenkins, Chief Cricket Correspondent

IT IS cricket, but not as we know it. In an attempt to introduce more excitement, the world governing body has agreed significant changes to the format of the game.
Rather than accepting that there are far too many one-day internationals played around the world, the stance of the International Cricket Council (ICC) seems to be that, if the product is going stale, the answer is to give it bright new packaging. If approved, the new initiatives will become common to all internationals for at least a year from July and probably will be used in the 2007 World Cup.



In future, teams in one-day international cricket will be able to make tactical use of a substitute to bat and to bowl and there will be only ten overs with fielding restrictions at the start of each innings; but the number of fielders allowed outside the 30-yard circle will be limited for a further ten overs, to be nominated in five-over sequences at times that suit the fielding captain.

The proposals, by Sunil Gavaskar’s 12-man cricket committee, made at a meeting in Dubai — with significant input from present international players who feel that matches have become too stereotyped under present regulations — are sure to be rubber-stamped by the ICC executive committee when it meets next month. One-day captains, already hard pressed in limited-overs cricket, are going to be even more stretched in tense situations, especially in deciding when or if to substitute a player.

Only one substitute per team will be nominated to replace any player at any stage of a match, but the batsman or bowler replaced will then be ruled out for the remainder of the match.

Both the substitute and the original member of the XI will receive a cap and the replacement can be made at any stage of the match.

Thus, not only might a bowler bowl ten overs and appear no more, but if a batting team get into early trouble, they could use a batting substitute, so long as he was the player nominated at the outset.

In practice, most teams are likely to choose as their “super sub” a dashing utility player who can bowl a bit, field like a demon and hit the ball hard.

Taking a further significant step towards umpiring by television technology, the cricket committee also recommended that, throughout the self-styled “Super Series” six-day match between Australia and the Rest of the World in October, the umpires on the field should be able to refer any decision they wish, except disputed low catches, to the third umpire. Such awkward decisions as whether a bat-pad appeal is genuine or whether balls have pitched, or struck the pad, in line with the stumps in close leg-before appeals may be referred to television replays and relayed to the umpire in the middle.

In last year’s Champions Trophy, the ICC experimented successfully with communication in the other direction when the television umpire notified the umpire on the field if a no-ball had been bowled.

This could lead to much greater use of cameras and other television gadgetry, notably Hawkeye, the device that tracks the predicted path of the ball after it has pitched, for all televised matches. The proposal of Duncan Fletcher, the England coach, that, instead, each team should be given a limited number of opportunities to refer an umpire’s decision to television replay evidence was rejected on the ground that it would alter the time-honoured convention that cricketers should not question the umpire’s decision.

The cricket committee also considered submissions from MCC and manufacturers on the composition, colour, size and cover of cricket bats and set up a sub-committee to discuss the details further, including whether the use of carbon graphite in the brand of bat used by, among others, Ricky Ponting, the Australia captain, gives any extra advantage. The law states at present that bats must be made of wood and the committee reiterated yesterday that “the blade should be made of a single piece of solid wood”.

THE MAIN POINTS

One-day fielding restrictions should apply for the first ten overs of every innings, with two additional blocks of five overs to be applied through the course of an innings at the discretion of the fielding team’s captain.

The introduction of substitutes for one-day international cricket, wherein a player could be replaced at any stage of a match but would then be ruled out for the remainder of the match.

A trial will be undertaken at the Super Series in Australia in October to allow on-field umpires to refer any decision except low catches to the TV umpire.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,426-1616817,00.html
 

chaminda_00

Hall of Fame Member
marc71178 said:
But the batting line-up could feasibly have no overs with the restrictions in place - which is more than a tad unfair.
I think you will find if they haven't used it by the 40 over mark or 45 over mark then they are forced to use the restrictions. It pretty simple to enforce it on the bowling team by the umpires.
 

dinu23

International Debutant
Jono said:
We're low enough on champion all-rounders as it is. Now the idea of being one is useless when a team can sub a top quality bowler for a top quality batsman and vice-versa whenever they require to do so.
no, i think most team will opt for an allrounder as their sub because then they don't have to worry about having too many batsmen or too many bowlers.
 

chaminda_00

Hall of Fame Member
vic_orthdox said:
From an ICC perspective, as they try to grow the game in the minnow countries, and attempt to get more and more people to watch it, why would they make the game more complicated?
I dont think it will make the game more competitive as it will not just bridge the grap between and Australia and the rest of world. Reason being is that having substitutes only only benefits the teams with more depth, i.e. Australia
 
Last edited:

Deja moo

International Captain
dinu23 said:
no, i think most team will opt for an allrounder as their sub because then they don't have to worry about having too many batsmen or too many bowlers.
They'll most probably go for an extra bowler, given the paucity of quality all rounders in the game. This proposal sounds like a god send for Ganguly, he could play the 7 batsmen he wants alongwith 5 full bowlers. Its basically a rule that papers over the cracks for teams who lack all rounders. Its a case of you arent good enough to find an all rounder, the ICC will help you overcome the problem. Thats not a good idea. Part of the beauty of the game lies in the number 11. Its a perfect number which forces the captain to think about the composition of the team.
 

chaminda_00

Hall of Fame Member
Deja moo said:
They'll most probably go for an extra bowler, given the paucity of quality all rounders in the game. This proposal sounds like a god send for Ganguly, he could play the 7 batsmen he wants alongwith 5 full bowlers. Its basically a rule that papers over the cracks for teams who lack all rounders. Its a case of you arent good enough to find an all rounder, the ICC will help you overcome the problem. Thats not a good idea. Part of the beauty of the game lies in the number 11. Its a perfect number which forces the captain to think about the composition of the team.
Are you sure about that if you bowl first then the sub is wasted cus you wont use him in the second innings. If they go for a bowler then it will be a bowling all rounder like Ajit Agarkar so you could play him instead of a bowler who can't bat down the order. I doubt you will ever see a player like Nehra as a sub.
 

vic_orthdox

Global Moderator
chaminda_00 said:
I dont think it will make the game more complicated as it will not just bridge the grap between and Australia and the rest of world. Reason being is that having substitutes only only benefits the teams with more depth, i.e. Australia
But the success of Australia is not what will make it complicated, it is trying to understand why suddenly no-one is out, why there's 11 players and suddenly there's 12, when the game is complicated itself as it is.

If you want an example case, part of the reason that Australian Rules Football has never caught on beyond the traditional states in Australia, let alone another country, is because its damn hard to pick up if you didn't grow up with it. Cricket is not so much...but changes like this might see it become that way.
 

chaminda_00

Hall of Fame Member
vic_orthdox said:
But the success of Australia is not what will make it complicated, it is trying to understand why suddenly no-one is out, why there's 11 players and suddenly there's 12, when the game is complicated itself as it is.

If you want an example case, part of the reason that Australian Rules Football has never caught on beyond the traditional states in Australia, let alone another country, is because its damn hard to pick up if you didn't grow up with it. Cricket is not so much...but changes like this might see it become that way.
Sorry i meant to write competitive, how one word can change the meaning of a post.
 

Deja moo

International Captain
chaminda_00 said:
Are you sure about that if you bowl first then the sub is wasted cus you wont use him in the second innings. If they go for a bowler then it will be a bowling all rounder like Ajit Agarkar so you could play him instead of a bowler who can't bat down the order. I doubt you will ever see a player like Nehra as a sub.
That would be the case if there were quality all rounders in the game. If AA were that useful lower down the order, he would be a regular in the side without those regulations in place anyway. Teams with true all rounders do not need this rule. Teams without true all rounders wouldnt benefit by playing the pseudo-all rounder like AA because if he didnt click well when only 11 players were allowed, chances are he wont do much better in both disciplines as the 12th player. Which brings us back to the notion that its better to go for specialists when the supposed all rounder is performing consistently in just one discipline or if he is merely a bits and pieces player .I do see your point though working with certain players though. Australia might go for Watson as the 12th player.
 

Prince EWS

Global Moderator
I doubt we will ever see the number 11 as the sub, however, using the number 10 as a sub could be quite effective.

Obviously, if you bat first, it would work, as you would just sub off the player least likely to bowl (bar the keeper..) for the number 10 batsman.

But even if you lose the toos and are put into the field, a number 10 sub could be quite useful. Picture this - Nehra opens the bowling and bowks out his ten completely after 19 overs. He can now be subbed for Anil Kumble. Now, even though you bowled first - this would be VERY useful. You would lose NOTHING in terms of taking Nehra off, as he has already bowled all he can - and he cant bat or field. Kumble is a better batsman tha Nehra, and still has a whole ten overs up his sleave with the ball.

Anyway, in regards to allrounders, I agree in terms of test cricket, but as for one day cricket, I for one am sick and tired of seeing tripe bowlers like Yuvraj go around. Internatioanl cricket is about the best against the best, and Yuvraj bowling to Anthony McGrath is far from that. We need to try and get rid of the bits-and-pieces players and the part-timers from the game, and this does it.
 

marc71178

Eyes not spreadsheets
chaminda_00 said:
I think you will find if they haven't used it by the 40 over mark or 45 over mark then they are forced to use the restrictions. It pretty simple to enforce it on the bowling team by the umpires.
Yes, they'd be forced to use it in the last 15 overs - but by then it could be too late.

I personally feel the batting captain should choose the restrictions if they're all going to be "floating" overs, but if there's a fixed 10 then 2 fives that would be a different scenario.

Do they have to be nominated at the start of the innings?
 

marc71178

Eyes not spreadsheets
Prince EWS said:
You would lose NOTHING in terms of taking Nehra off, as he has already bowled all he can - and he cant bat or field. Kumble is a better batsman tha Nehra, and still has a whole ten overs up his sleave with the ball.
Ah, but the proposed rules said that the 2 would share a 10-over stint.
 

Richard

Cricket Web Staff Member
Even ICC have previously admitted that new plans they've drawn-up are utterly beyond the boundaries of reason and scrapped them... haven't they?
If this idea comes into force I'm near enough certain to lose all interest in ODIs.
This is like one of those horrible sci-fis where you wake-up in cold sweat and spend the next 2 hours thanking God it was just a nightmare.
How I wish this was just a nightmare...
 
Last edited:

Swervy

International Captain
Richard said:
Even ICC have previously admitted that new plans they've drawn-up are utterly beyond the boundaries of reason and scrapped them... haven't they?
If this idea comes into force I'm near enough certain to lose all interest in ODIs.
This is like one of those horrible sci-fis where you wake-up in cold sweat and spend the next 2 hours thanking God it was just a nightmare.
How I wish this was just a nightmare...
Does that mean you will be on here only half as much as you are now!!!!???

If so..bring on the rule changes :p
 

FaaipDeOiad

Hall of Fame Member
It's a terrible, terrible idea for many reasons, mostly already pointed out by Deja_moo, Richard and company. Yes, the ODI format is very stagnant at the moment for the diehard cricket fan, but for your average joe it's preferable to test cricket and is very exciting. Certainly changing the entire format of the game by allowing substitutes is a terrible idea, and would remove the very concept of team balance. I mean, there is a REASON that it was decided a bowler should only bowl one fifth of the total overs in an ODI game, which was to require some though on behalf of the captain with regard to team structure, to ensure they got enough batsman in to get the job done but could also find at minimum five bowlers. It would be a godsend to those teams with no established all-rounders, and would vastly reduce the value of someone like Flintoff.

The field restriction ideas aren't so bad, but they are unnecessarily complicated. To improve the quality of cricket for the diehard fan they simply need to stop focusing on producing the pitch that will break the 400 barrier and offer a bit for the bowlers, which is where almost all the great ODI games are played - slow pitches with sub 275 scores. For bums on seats entertainment the game is absolutely fine as it is.
 

Richard

Cricket Web Staff Member
I just hope and pray that the widescale reaction is akin to that seen on this board and that ICC take notice.
Either that or this rubbish gets tried, ODI popularity goes through the floor and ICC have to eat humble-pie and restore the game to it's proper state - sooner rather than later.
 

Richard

Cricket Web Staff Member
Swervy said:
Does that mean you will be on here only half as much as you are now!!!!???

If so..bring on the rule changes :p
I was almost certain someone would say that and you were my top bet.
Incidentally, the answer is I'd probably spend even more time on here just so I could label every game a FDI.
 

Swervy

International Captain
Richard said:
I was almost certain someone would say that and you were my top bet.
Incidentally, the answer is I'd probably spend even more time on here just so I could label every game a FDI.
I am very predictable arent I
 

Smudge

Hall of Fame Member
Richard said:
I was almost certain someone would say that and you were my top bet.
Incidentally, the answer is I'd probably spend even more time on here just so I could label every game a FDI.
Sounds like trolling behaviour.
 

Top