11th Match - South Africa v England

[kevinw]

That would be unfortunate. It's a good format.

Is it in rude health in other countries? They've given up on it in England. I can't see how any international players will get any exposure to it.

 

[honestbharani]

I kinda understand the criticism of ODIs coz it does test the larger cricket skills more than T20s but it also does not test it nearly half as much as tests do. And quite often, with good wickets, the middle overs of the ODIs is more about who makes the first mistake and can become a war of attrition while having less than half the levels of skills you will need in tests.

If we had more bowler friendly wickets though, I do see ODIs becoming even more exciting and a better contest. I would still prefer T20s on a flat track than ODIs.

 

[Bahseph]

I kinda understand the criticism of ODIs coz it does test the larger cricket skills more than T20s but it also does not test it nearly half as much as tests do. And quite often, with good wickets, the middle overs of the ODIs is more about who makes the first mistake and can become a war of attrition while having less than half the levels of skills you will need in tests.

If we had more bowler friendly wickets though, I do see ODIs becoming even more exciting and a better contest. I would still prefer T20s on a flat track than ODIs.

For me a perfect ODI is a score around 240 odd where the pitch has something in it. That’s when the middle overs actually become a case of batsman showing skill to knock it around instead of bowlers trying to not be hit for a boundary. We lost a major facet of the game with the two new ball rule. At the end of the day any format can be boring if the right combo of conditions/opponents occurs. I’ve watched enough flat track Test draws in the 2000s!

 

[Stefan9]

Marco should ask the English boys. Sure they can recommend some courses:

 

[Bahseph]

I don’t want to get on the bandwagon of trashing England but it’s clear that the current plan isn’t working. When I watch guys like Jamie Smith or Harry Brook I see talented stroke makers who don’t understand their 50 over game. The bowling at the moment lacks any variety and unless you can keep Archer,Wood + one other 145+ quick fit, you aren’t going to always blow batters away. I don’t rate Sam Curran enough to think he can reliably give you 10 in an ODI without going for a few but there needs to be more variety. Liam Livingstone is better than a part timer but he can’t be given the Moeen Ali role because this England team can’t carry a Moeen Ali at the moment.

 

[Red_Ink_Squid]

I don’t want to get on the bandwagon of trashing England but it’s clear that the current plan isn’t working. When I watch guys like Jamie Smith or Harry Brook I see talented stroke makers who don’t understand their 50 over game.

And current expectation is that we're gonna try and fix it by making one of those players who doesn't understand the 50 over format the captain...

 

[Burgey]

I don’t want to get on the bandwagon of trashing England

Oh come on. The wagon’s pretty full but we’ll still make some room. Climb aboard.

 

[Silly Point 2.0]

I don’t want to get on the bandwagon of trashing England but it’s clear that the current plan isn’t working. When I watch guys like Jamie Smith or Harry Brook I see talented stroke makers who don’t understand their 50 over game. The bowling at the moment lacks any variety and unless you can keep Archer,Wood + one other 145+ quick fit, you aren’t going to always blow batters away. I don’t rate Sam Curran enough to think he can reliably give you 10 in an ODI without going for a few but there needs to be more variety. Liam Livingstone is better than a part timer but he can’t be given the Moeen Ali role because this England team can’t carry a Moeen Ali at the moment.

Please do. The more the merrier. Whether it's us English getting fed up of them or Aussies sticking the boot in, we all seem to be united in the same goal, albeit some of us want change and others don't, depending where they're from!

 

[GIMH]

Didn’t watch a ball of this today. Held a tournament dead rubber in lower regard than I do bilateral dead rubbers. Not sure why.

Anyway. Only positive I’m taking from this tournament is that Joe Root can still bat like a gun in ODIs. Build the team around him for the next two years ffs. Duckett and Archer too.

Im a noted Phil Salt fan but think T20 is probably his limit internationally. Harry will come good in the format if he gets the chance. Hell, same goes for a fair few of the young ones. The batsmen obviously failed today but bowling is the bigger worry at the moment, Joffra aside.

I don’t know what the answer is but if they don’t want the next WC to be as embarrassing as the last one, and frankly every other one between 1996 and 2015 for that matter, then they need to address it quickly. Or just completely own the disregard for the format and only pick based on One Day Cup form each year. **** it.

 

[morgieb]

Is it in rude health in other countries? They've given up on it in England. I can't see how any international players will get any exposure to it.

It varies from country to country. In the middle-class style cricketing nations where T20 leagues aren't as prevalent and Tests don't get good crowd it still seems to hold significant appeal as a money spinner.

 

[LangleyburyCCPlayer]

Is it in rude health in other countries? They've given up on it in England. I can't see how any international players will get any exposure to it.

A lot has been made of the impact of the Hundred, and it's true that our golden generation all grew up on domestic List A whereas the youngsters coming through now largely don't have that option, but it's not as if other domestic List A competitions are in rude health. I think a lot of it also comes down to the fact that English players play so much cricket across the formats that ODIs are inevitably the games that they're rested for; Root is so good and so experienced that you can just drop him in and he'll play like he's never been away, but for younger all-format players like Atkinson and Smith who are in and out of the ODI squad it's much more difficult to get to grips with the nuances of the format (not least when Smith is promoted to #3!). I suspect if you look at a teamsheet for bilateral ODIs, apart from Australia (who aren't even taking this tournament seriously), most countries' XIs would be closer to full-strength than some of the XIs we've seen from England of late

 

[slowfinger]

Please do. The more the merrier. Whether it's us English getting fed up of them or Aussies sticking the boot in, we all seem to be united in the same goal, albeit some of us want change and others don't, depending where they're from!

Also, the team are way to smug about themselves right now for me to give a **** about bashing them.I hate Buttler's interviews with a passion

 

[FBU]

You can't have 4 bowlers and two part timers. Root 61.85 and Livingstone 39.28
South Africa have 1 Jansen 30.73, 2 Ngidi 29.46, 3 Rabada 27.36, 4 Mulder 34.52 and 5 Maharaj 31.39. Markram is a part spinner 49.70

Was looking at the 2013 CT when England got to the Final v India (20 over match) India won by 5 runs

 

[SillyCowCorner1]

Friendly reminder: Rassie's average went over 49.00 in this innings. It's currently at 49.37

From my rough math, he needs to make 62 for his average to touch 50.00

If he makes 12*, this also gets him to 50.00

 

[Nintendo]

For me a perfect ODI is a score around 240 odd where the pitch has something in it. That’s when the middle overs actually become a case of batsman showing skill to knock it around instead of bowlers trying to not be hit for a boundary. We lost a major facet of the game with the two new ball rule. At the end of the day any format can be boring if the right combo of conditions/opponents occurs. I’ve watched enough flat track Test draws in the 2000s!

I don't mind a modern day 250 style game. Pre 2 new ball 200-240 games where dreadful in the middle overs IMO. Maybe it's an attention span thing, but watching darren lehmann style bowlers burgle 5-10 cheap overs with a soft ball isn't particularly engaging.

 

[SeamUp]

I don't mind a modern day 250 style game. Pre 2 new ball 200-240 games where dreadful in the middle overs IMO. Maybe it's an attention span thing, but watching darren lehmann style bowlers burgle 5-10 cheap overs with a soft ball isn't particularly engaging.

I do appreciate the skillsets myself. Being able to manipulate the field.

But interesting to see what Pollock was talking about. New ball from either end in the opening PP and then you use one ball for the rest of the 50 overs to hopefully still get reverse later to challenge batsmen again at the end and doesn't become pure hitathon T20 every time.

PS also some of those best ODI games have been scores from 200-250 when batsmen do have to face challenges.

 

[Kenneth Viljoen]

Marco Jansen probably the greatest fielder ever over 6'5

 

[slowfinger]

I do appreciate the skillsets myself. Being able to manipulate the field.

But interesting to see what Pollock was talking about. New ball from either end in the opening PP and then you use one ball for the rest of the 50 overs to hopefully still get reverse later to challenge batsmen again at the end and doesn't become pure hitathon T20 every time.

PS also some of those best ODI games have been scores from 200-250 when batsmen do have to face challenges.

I agree ODI Kookaburra balls just become way too useless after about 6 overs or after the batsman hits a few boundaries. A soft benign kookaburra that doesn't spin much as the seam is way too shallow as well. I would maybe consider asking ?Dukes to design a new ODI ball with more prominent seam that doesn't degrade so quickly potentially as another option?

 

[Nintendo]

Marco Jansen probably the greatest fielder ever over 6'5

Cameron green is pretty handy tbf.

 

[Durham Fan]

What disappoints me most is that it looks like most of the England team don’t care. The (unwarranted) arrogance of the likes of Brook is staggering.

And people are touting Brook as the next captain? The bloke couldn’t hit a barn door with a beach ball at the moment.