*Official* 4th Test - England v India - Keep all Discussion Here Please!

*Official* 4th Test - England v India - Keep all Discussion Here Please!

No Flintoff for the Oval, no Craig White either.

Hussain and Fletcher today are reported as saying 'it will be difficult to find another all-rounder at this stage'.

I suppose that Flintoff, White and Cork are the nearest thing we have to a quality all-rounder in England. Of the trio, Flintoff is the best batter (or should I say batterer?), Cork is certainly the best bowler by a mile and Chalky is probably second-best in both.

Now reading between the lines, do Fletcher's and Hussain's comments signal the end for Dominic Cork as a test player?

An all-rounder should be a player who can contribute significantly through his batting or his bowling or both. Going by that definition, Flintoff is the nearest thing England has to an real all-rounder. White has batted well against India, but in bowling, he has been at best accurate. Cork by the same token is primarily a bowler who can bat a bit. Is Cork really considered as an all-rounder in his county and the national side?

He has not been in the best of form in the tests against India, but as a bowler, I feel he can still make a comeback into the English side.

Corky's an all-rounder in county cricket - even Ashley Giles can be in one-dayers - but it wouldn't surprise me if he wasn't picked for England again. Unless he signed for Surrey, that is.

And what about Darren Maddy? He's taken 36 wickets @ 23.52 (BB 5-37) and scored 830 runs @ 43.56 (HS 156). What else does he need to do?

You know me - I'm always going to blow Cork's trumpet because he is a fighter (and we could do with one or two).

Maddy's definitely a good player - I would take him to Sri Lanka. Not quite sure about Australia, but hey, why not?

Corky averages almost 4 wickets a test. No way is Flintoff EVER going to achieve that level until he learns to pitch the ball in the batsman's half.

This year, Corky played 2 half-tests (got injured in both) and took 6 wickets. Not a great average (33) but at a pretty reasonable strike rate.

DC's taken 63 wickets this season in the aforementioned 2 half-tests and 8 county championship matches. His strike rate is a little over 1 wicket every 6 overs, economy rate is under 3 and average of 18. Batting average is 29, compared to White's 36 and Flintoff's er, 28. Hmmmmm.

More to the point, why does he not figure in England's 1-day team? Again this season he is in sparkling form with the ball - his average is 22 and the economy rate is under 3 - by far the best in the country excluding those just bowling in 1 or 2 games (batting not so hot - average 20, S/R 75).

What about this new comer I hear so much about, Rikki Clarke, is he any good?

Well, he plays for Surrey so he's in, then.

Looks a good bat - could become a useful bowler

He has made a reasonably good impact so far, but hasn't set the world alight. However.. more games needed before we make our minds up. But playing for Surrey is an advantage.

niel pickup is gay and so is his brother andy

So, what is a likely English side for the fourth test?

A very good point.

If Trescothick is fit (and currently there are still huge doubts) then he will come in in place of Robert Key.

The other changes will be in the bowling department. Flintoff is out (operation supposedly this Friday), White is still not fit.

Harmison is playing for Durham today and has taken 4 wickets for 83, but it is a seamer's paradise (Killeen, Penberthy and Greenidge are all among the wickets there).

Simon Jones only bowled 1 over for Glamorgan against Notts. Was he injured or not? I haven't been able to find out.

My guess is that they will replace Flintoff with Harmison and retain Giles, Tudor and Hoggard.

If Trescothick returns, it would be a huge boost for England. The attack with Tudor, Hoggard and Harmison looks ok. I don't know what impact Giles will make as I honestly don't have much of an opinion about him.

With the bowlers, it's all a question of putting the ball in the right place. The Indians failed to do that in the 1st and 2nd tests and the Englishmen followed suit in the 3rd test.

If both sides bowl with discipline and skill, there is every chance that it will be a very absorbing test and a fitting finale to an interesting series. It is at this point very difficult for me to pick a winner although I would like to see India pull off the win, of course.

I heard that it would be very unlikly for him to return for the last test.

Don't know about Jones, he has just come back from injury so maybe he was taking it really really easy

I guess the batting will stay the same and bowling wise, I can't see any major changes there either.. I guess it depends if they want to replace Flintoff like for like or just bring in a extra bowler

The all-rounder spot is key. England need an allrounder, however Flintoff, White and Irani are all injured. That only really leaves Ealham, Collingwood and someone like Adam Hollioake. How I wish for England that Gavin Hamilton never caught the yips....

Collingwood is injured.

Indians might be fielding an unchanged side for this test. The only possible change could be Ratra in place of Patel since Patel has injury worries and Ratra just scored a ton against Derbyshire. I know I am saying this for the hundredth time, but Agarkar should be dropped and Yohannan should get a look-in. Among all the 16 players who went on the tour, I think he is the only one who hasn't got a chance yet in the test series.

A winning combination is normally not disturbed, but i agree with u on the wkt keepere.Also its time to give Tinu Yohannan a chance, maybe Ajit can be rested for the 4th test

Indian batters are in good touch, if they shows the same application and dedication as in the third tests, then England would find it impossible to bowl out India twice.
It all comes down to Indian bowlers, can they do the job again??? Bhajji and Kumble will have to really go for the kill, Khan bowled impressively in the previous tests, and Ajit and Bangar chipped in with usefull wkts.I think the bowlers can do the job for India, the chances of an Indian victory is greater than an Engish one.

On Yohannan, i think there should be no experimentation at such a time, the same 5 bowlers should be used as in the third test.

I would make India slight favourites.

Reason : they have improved throughout the tour and shown immense character.

This even rubbed off on the Indian u-19's today when the England team had come back remarkably (when India were well up on the run rate and 150-0 chasing 259). The last Indian pair needed about 20 off the last 2 overs (and 8 off the last 2 balls) yet got them.

The commentators were (unsurprisingly) disappointed, but I thought that it was an incredible cricket match.

Tell you what - there were a few future stars on show (and a few who unfortunately might not make the step up).

Luckyeddie, actually the rubbing off was likely in the other way !
the youngsters have been doing well for quite a while, and the latest sensations in the senior ODI team are all ex under19 or indiaA chaps
The seniors are probably learning from them!

No doubt about it.

Historically, India (and Pakistan) have always blooded their youngsters at a much earlier age.

I don't know, but I would guess that several of the Indian u-19 players are regular first class players already?

The only member of the England u-19 side who has been a regular in his county side (I think) is Kyle Hogg.