Who is the best old ball bowler of all-time?

[sayon basak]

No

Ok

 

[kyear2]

@subshakerz at this moment in time, the vote is somewhat definitive.

Literally the only Imran vote is yours, I mean you're literally the only one here who at this point believes that Imran is the best old ball bowler.

So if he's the 8th ranked CW bowler, at best the 3rd ranked old ball bowler, to repeat by question from the other thread, why is it egregious for him to make a 3rd team?

And what's your argument for the bowler who comes on 1st change and will be responsible for as many overs as your openers... His batting?

When that goes directly against the argument you just made for Kallis, especially with Hadlee in the 2nd team holding it down at 8?

 

[subshakerz]

@subshakerz at this moment in time, the vote is somewhat definitive.

Literally the only Imran vote is yours, I mean you're literally the only one here who at this point believes that Imran is the best old ball bowler.

So if he's the 8th ranked CW bowler, at best the 3rd ranked old ball bowler, to repeat by question from the other thread, why is it egregious for him to make a 3rd team?

And what's your argument for the bowler who comes on 1st change and will be responsible for as many overs as your openers... His batting?

When that goes directly against the argument you just made for Kallis, especially with Hadlee in the 2nd team holding it down at 8?

Oh my God, are you literally citing a CW poll vote as an authority?

Shall I show you poll votes that go against your opinion then?

 

[Thala_0710]

I think Bumrah's quite better than a lot of guys here with the old ball, so I would add him to the list. I would go with Akram too though.

 

[kyear2]

Oh my God, are you literally citing a CW poll vote as an authority?

Shall I show you poll votes that go against your opinion then?

That's the community were in.

What would you prefer published all time teams?

Imran isn't making those either, I have a list I can produce.

So besides your say so, what's your argument for the ball tamperer?

 

[subshakerz]

That's the community were in.

What the heck does that even mean? The community we are in doesn't rate Barry like you do either.

 

[kyear2]

I think Bumrah's quite better than a lot of guys here with the old ball, so I would add him to the list. I would go with Akram too though.

I made that point earlier this week as well when I said he's in my AT XI if he hits 300 wickets.

And yes, that's why until then, Wasim makes my AT XI, he's the best at what he did, so best for that role, barely edging out Hadlee.

 

[kyear2]

What the heck does that even mean? The community we are in doesn't rate Barry like you do either.

We can only argue among the community were in.

And there's tow differences between you and I in this regard.

No one doubts Barry's quality, it's if he qualifies. And I have the peer rating as the best batsman in the world for almost 6 years, and the great pacers of the time who faced them both goes with Barry. Lillee, Procter, Snow, Thompson.

And secondly, unlike you I don't base my entire existence in getting people to agree with me and dedicate almost every single post on trying to boost one player and tear down every single one who challenges him in any way.

Barry is a player that I first placed in my all time team more than a decade ago, not because he is my national hero or my favorite player growing up.

Not even from my country, I don't boost him to the point where I either lie to myself or others and create an alternate narrative about his career where I ignore the facts and historical references.

 

[smash84]

@subshakerz at this moment in time, the vote is somewhat definitive.

Literally the only Imran vote is yours, I mean you're literally the only one here who at this point believes that Imran is the best old ball bowler.

So if he's the 8th ranked CW bowler, at best the 3rd ranked old ball bowler, to repeat by question from the other thread, why is it egregious for him to make a 3rd team?

And what's your argument for the bowler who comes on 1st change and will be responsible for as many overs as your openers... His batting?

When that goes directly against the argument you just made for Kallis, especially with Hadlee in the 2nd team holding it down at 8?

Digging up a 2 month old post to question subz on his choice on the poll .

Why don't you go head 2 head with him on some topics as @shortpitched713 suggested in the other thread.

 

[subshakerz]

We can only argue among the community were in.

And there's tow differences between you and I in this regard.

No one doubts Barry's quality, it's if he qualifies. And I have the peer rating as the best batsman in the world for almost 6 years, and the great pacers of the time who faced them both goes with Barry. Lillee, Procter, Snow, Thompson.

Dude Barry ain't winning any CW opener polls nor is he getting selected in ATG XIs on CW and he gets unanimously rated Behind Pollock who you put in your 4th XI.

Stop pretending you are consistent.

 

[SillyCowCorner1]

Guys, we have a thread for this: making noise a la debating

 

[subshakerz]

Guys, we have a thread for this: making noise a la debating

Unfortunately Kyear has now become abusive. I don't think he would be up for it.

 

[Coronis]

So besides your say so, what's your argument for the ball tamperer?

Now now, no need for name calling.

Just call him the convicted felon.

 

[sayon basak]

Don't see any problem with rating Imran as the best old ball bowler ever, nor do I see any problem in having an opinion conflicting with CW's general view.

 

[vidiq]

 

[honestbharani]

Leaving aside the crappy salty Vs kyear biasfest, I think its high time people recognized that being the 3rd fast bowler and bowling first/second change is a bit of an art by itself. Traditional measures are fine but in a team game, the role needs to have its nuances understood better. Wagner definitely as good as any 3rd seamer I have seen in my time of watching cricket. I wont mind it at all if he were my 3rd seamer in an AT XI esp. from the time I have been watching/following cricket (from circa. 1990).

 

[subshakerz]

Leaving aside the crappy salty Vs kyear biasfest, I think its high time people recognized that being the 3rd fast bowler and bowling first/second change is a bit of an art by itself. Traditional measures are fine but in a team game, the role needs to have its nuances understood better. Wagner definitely as good as any 3rd seamer I have seen in my time of watching cricket. I wont mind it at all if he were my 3rd seamer in an AT XI esp. from the time I have been watching/following cricket (from circa. 1990).

Yes I have arguing this too. Many here want to pick three new ball bowlers which won't work as well.

 

[kyear2]

Dude Barry ain't winning any CW opener polls nor is he getting selected in ATG XIs on CW and he gets unanimously rated Behind Pollock who you put in your 4th XI.

Stop pretending you are consistent.

Where did I say he was?

And stop making up ****. Pollock and Procter both say Barry was better. There's no unanimous anything between the two.

The difference is, and I'll go slowly for you.

There's less great openers than middle order batsmen. I thought that would have been obvious by now.


In any event, I don't expect Barry to make anything, he's a player and the type of player that I admire. He was a Colossus and according to many one of the great 3 of 4 batsmen of the modern era.

But if recent trends are to be believed, neither is Immy. And while you think it's something personal, that's just because that's how you think and approach your agendas against any and everyone that challenges your hero. Kallis, Ambrose, Steyn etc etc.

I just believe, and you've known this for years, and it doesn't in any way impact Marshall's selection or viability... That it's ridiculous to choose a bowling attack based on ones batting. These are the guys entrusted to bowl out the opposition and win matches for you. I don't care how nuanced the advantages are, that's what you want.

That's like saying one would take Lindwall or Pollock ahead of Bumrah. Or hey, Cummins over Bumrah.

I've said this before and I'll continue to, real life teams, or at least the good ones, places a greater emphasis on who they have in their cordons rather than how good their bowlers can bat. Even having a 5th bowling all rounder isn't as much a priority as having someone who can cover some overs without being a liability and weakening the batting as little as possible in the process. Guys like Kallis and Sobers are just massive outliers who provide tremendous benefits to their teams.

What makes an all rounder especially viable,.if they didn't bowl a delivery or could score a run, are they likely or have an argument to make said team, that leaves us with literally two ( in this perspective) Sobers and Hadlee.

 

[subshakerz]

Where did I say he was?

And stop making up ****. Pollock and Procter both say Barry was better. There's no unanimous anything between the two.

The difference is, and I'll go slowly for you.

There's less great openers than middle order batsmen. I thought that would have been obvious by now.


In any event, I don't expect Barry to make anything, he's a player and the type of player that I admire. He was a Colossus and according to many one of the great 3 of 4 batsmen of the modern era.

But if recent trends are to be believed, neither is Immy. And while you think it's something personal, that's just because that's how you think and approach your agendas against any and everyone that challenges your hero. Kallis, Ambrose, Steyn etc etc.

I just believe, and you've known this for years, and it doesn't in any way impact Marshall's selection or viability... That it's ridiculous to choose a bowling attack based on ones batting. These are the guys entrusted to bowl out the opposition and win matches for you. I don't care how nuanced the advantages are, that's what you want.

That's like saying one would take Lindwall or Pollock ahead of Bumrah. Or hey, Cummins over Bumrah.

I've said this before and I'll continue to, real life teams, or at least the good ones, places a greater emphasis on who they have in their cordons rather than how good their bowlers can bat. Even having a 5th bowling all rounder isn't as much a priority as having someone who can cover some overs without being a liability and weakening the batting as little as possible in the process. Guys like Kallis and Sobers are just massive outliers who provide tremendous benefits to their teams.

What makes an all rounder especially viable,.if they didn't bowl a delivery or could score a run, are they likely or have an argument to make said team, that leaves us with literally two ( in this perspective) Sobers and Hadlee.

You didn't address the point on using CW polls as authority.

Anyways if Wasim couldn't bat would you select him? Yes or no

 

[Coronis]

Yes I have arguing this too. Many here want to pick three new ball bowlers which won't work as well.

I mean, I do understand the point, but I’ll take Hadlee at first change over Wagner any day.