Dennis Lillee: Officially a hypocrite

[Top_Cat]

http://foxsports.news.com.au/story/0,8659,6582522-23209,00.html

Lillee calls for sin bin
June 12, 2003

FAST bowling great Dennis Lillee believes cricket should adopt a sin bin system and send players from the field when they are guilty of intolerable behaviour.

Lillee - fines don't work any more.
Lillee, himself no saint in the behavioural stakes, has spoken out in his new autobiography released in Australia this week.

"Fines don't work any more," Lillee wrote.

"I laugh when I see a tennis player fined $5000. It's pin money for most top players. They have to be hit where it hurts, something to make them think twice the next time they are considering the same offence.

"In cricket you can hurt the cheats by hurting the team. Perhaps a set of regulations could be drawn up, enforced by a warning followed by a yellow card. Then, if someone oversteps the mark again he is sent from the field for a session.

"If it's a batsman, maybe he should have a portion of his runs deducted. They have to be hit where it hurts, something to make them think twice . . . sin bin a player if he's bad and he will soon have his coach and officials in his ears."

Lillee said catches claimed off a bump ball may also be an offence, as would the "nasty habit" of bowlers and fieldsmen running at umpires as they appeal.

Lillee said he despised orchestrated appealing, claiming "when someone at mid-off or anyone other than the wicket-keeper and the bowler appeals for lbw he cannot be serious because he is in no position to judge".

Lillee, who took 355 wickets in his 70 Test matches and remains modern cricket's most idolised fast bowler, admitted finding the perfect balance for handling emotional outbursts was a delicate operation because "we have to be careful not to take the passion out of the game . . . when people are passionate and competitive, the odd incident will occur."

Lillee's most famous clash of wills was with Pakistan batsman Javed Miandad in Perth in 1981, when Miandad threatened to hit Lillee with his bat after an on-field disagreement.

The issue of how to handle on-field flare-ups is one of Australian cricket's hottest topics following the furore generated by Glenn McGrath with Ramnaresh Sarwan in the West Indies.

Lillee believes that, even though Australia are ranked No. 1 in the world, they have a problem in that they let their cricketers play too long.

"We let people play too long – myself included," he wrote.

"It's hard to know when to quit a game you love as a player. You want to extend it for as long as possible, particularly now with so much money involved . . . if you go on for 15 years you can impede the next generation of players.

"Australia has to be careful, otherwise a few years down the line we may face a thin period, particularly with the batting as I don't see a lot of players coming through.

"For a long time now Australia has had a proliferation of top players who would have played for any other country in the world but who have hardly had a sniff for Australia."

Lillee, published by Hodder International. Recommended retail price $49.95

The Daily Telegraph

Lillee, you are kidding on two counts:

1 - Dennis Lillee was a pivotal member of THE team in Australian history which was responsible for the Ugly Australian image. Lillee used to sledge and abuse batsmen as much if not more than players today. There was the infamous Javed Miandad kicking incident (which would have earned him a fine and a ban today) and his wager with Rod March AGAINST his own team in the 1981 Ashes series (which would have earned him a life ban today). HYPOCRITE.

2 - $49.95 for his autobiography!!! What a joke........

I cannot help but feel that this may be a stunt to promote the book but surely, Lillee is kidding.............

 

[Kenny]

I think it's probably a bit harsh calling him a hpyocrite, perhaps he has mellowed a bit in his 50's?
He has some good points.
I think the OTT appealing and running toward umpires has to stop, and the issue of disputed catches is one that even the 3rd umpire doesn't seem to have helped.......

The Javed 'kicking incident' was fairly ordinary, but I think 'tap' rather than 'kick' is more accurate - who would wish to defend Javed's reputation as a fair player anyway? he was constantly sniping, sledging, getting under the skin of players, I'm surprised Lillee didn't 'kick' him harder!!
As for the now infamous wager at Headingley, well it was ok then to have a bet, wasn't it? They did it almost as a joke, and it is always difficult to rationalise comments like "If they did it now"........they didn't.
Dennis was the greatest fast bowler of his time, perhaps any time, and I believe the vast majority of his former opponents have a great deal of respect for him.

 

[Simon]

2 points

1. Hes a ********.
2. Hes kidding himself if he thinks anyone will take this idea seriously.

 

[vicpride29]

Totally agree he is and he is starting to annoy me how bout you guys.

 

[Top_Cat]

The Javed 'kicking incident' was fairly ordinary, but I think 'tap' rather than 'kick' is more accurate - who would wish to defend Javed's reputation as a fair player anyway? he was constantly sniping, sledging, getting under the skin of players, I'm surprised Lillee didn't 'kick' him harder!!

Javed was annoying, yes. But he was hardly unfair. And the preferential treatment he recieved in Pakistan through umpires was more than likely hometown umpiring rather than anything he did. Regardless of what someone says to you or you say to them, unwanted physical contact anywhere is not on. Whether Dennis tapped Javed, kicked him or whatever is irrelevent; it was inappropriate to touch him at all, let alone a mock kick.

As for the now infamous wager at Headingley, well it was ok then to have a bet, wasn't it? They did it almost as a joke, and it is always difficult to rationalise comments like "If they did it now"........they didn't.

Okay so there were no rules put in place to specifically target those who would bet. Surely you cant say that at any time in cricket history its been approriate to bet on the team youre playing against! Extenuating circumstances there may have been (Australia were well in control of the match etc.) but it has NEVER been okay to bet ANY money on your opposition for obvious enough reasons. What he and Rod March did could never really be justified.

The point is, its hard for Dennis to be a credible (let alone impartial) opinion on this one. For him to so self-righteously claim that so-and-so is wrong and should be stopped is pretty damn hypocritical, particularly since he was guilty frequently of that which he would oppose and was hardly the lone voice of opposition back when he was actually playing the game. He did it all and regularly ergo, he IS a hypocrite.

Look, Dennis is one of my favourite players but part of his appeal was that he never made any apologies for the ways he played the game. He is effectively doing it now.

Dennis was the greatest fast bowler of his time, perhaps any time, and I believe the vast majority of his former opponents have a great deal of respect for him.

No-one doubts any of this. But you must surely acknowledge that opposition players had more respect for him as a player than as an opponent. You will hear about how Dennis was a fantastic competitor and a great fast bowler before you hear about what a nice bloke he was.

 

[luckyeddie]

Sure, Lillee's probably guilty of everything that he suggests ought to be put to rights.

Saying that, though, doesn't mean that he isn't correct in what he says - despite the fact that this is an obvious publicity stunt which is not lost upon a certain feathered, web-footed fellow not a million miles from where I'm sitting.

 

[Top_Cat]

Saying that, though, doesn't mean that he isn't correct in what he says

Maybe but some of what he says is simply ridiculous:

"It's hard to know when to quit a game you love as a player. You want to extend it for as long as possible, particularly now with so much money involved . . . if you go on for 15 years you can impede the next generation of players.

"Australia has to be careful, otherwise a few years down the line we may face a thin period, particularly with the batting as I don't see a lot of players coming through.

"For a long time now Australia has had a proliferation of top players who would have played for any other country in the world but who have hardly had a sniff for Australia."

So what? International cricket isnt about giving everyone a go. Its about picking the best players at the time to make up the best team. Sure there are players who were unlucky in their timing but thats sport for you, particularly when there are only 11 places in the top team. Jamie Siddons didnt get a go at the top level and there are countless other hard-luck stories. Thats life and thats cricket especially.

And as much as I love the guy, I just cant stand hearing him moralise about how players shouldnt play on too long when he sure as hell didnt retire when he should have. He may be right but it never sounds right coming from someone who actually did what he tells others not to do.

 

[Langeveldt]

Yeah, ill go with you on that one, very hypocritical!


And I dont know what that tosh he is speaking about impeding the next generation of players... A guy like Steve Waugh is still a batsman worthy of his place, i dont care how old he is, and he is a role model for those very people that eventually replace him

 

[Kenny]

Jeez some of you guys are tough........Lillee retired in 1984 and was still taking test wickets, still justifying his place.

As for hypocrisy, have you ever heard Geoff Boycott or Bill Lawry commentating and saying that the batsman needs to get on with it? :rolleyes:

How about Jeff Thomson saying the bowlers are bowling too much short stuff?

Give the guy a break, willya?

 

[Mr Mxyzptlk]

At times the batsmen do need to get on with it. Although people such as Boycott may not have done so in their playing days, they aren't playing now. They are payed to commentate and as such, they should do so accordingly. Therefore, if the batsmen should be upping the tempo, they (the commentators) are obliged to say so.

 

[Top_Cat]

Lillee retired in 1984 and was still taking test wickets, still justifying his place.

Only just. Even his old mate Rod Marsh wrote a piece in a paper in WA saying he should quit. He went on too long and he knows it. I, personally, dont have a problem with this but for him to then complain about others doing the same is just a tad hypocritical. Admitting that he did the same doesnt diminish this much.

As for hypocrisy, have you ever heard Geoff Boycott or Bill Lawry commentating and saying that the batsman needs to get on with it?

How about Jeff Thomson saying the bowlers are bowling too much short stuff?

Awww, come on those situations are not analogous to this one. For one thing, none of those actions will attract a fine or punishment of any sort. Those guys complaining about stuff like that IS strictly hypocritical but still, they wouldnt get banned for it. Lillee is displaying a higher level of hypocracy because he is complaining about something which would attract a fine these days. In other words, he is saying that players should be punished today for what he did regularly in his day with fines and bans, all from the comfort of not playing for 20 years. I bet if youd asked him about the same issues 20 years ago, he would have a vastly different response. He has quite obviously lost touch with how it is in the cauldren of international cricket and has shown himself to be less than understanding of the current crop of players.

This would almost be on the same plane of hypocrasy as if Warnie and Mark Waugh were quoted as saying that all players who took money from bookies should be given a life ban, say, 20 years from now. Its all too easy to call for changes to rules which dont affect you in any way, but surely would have were you still playing.

 

[Kenny]

Ah, I'm not disagreeing with everything you are saying, TC, but you're harsh........very harsh!!

 

[Craig]

In my opinion, he will always be one of the greatest bowlers of all time. I would not pay $49.95 for it, but I will wait to it is available at the libery or when it is cheaper and then buy it. Mind you, he was no saint either.

 

[full_length]

Not the first, nor the last hypocrite on this planet.
Ex-cricketers are so often so full of it.
Dreading the day Steve Waugh joines commentary teams! Will be precious to hear him condemn captains for not controlling onfield behaviour!

 

[Simon]

Not the first, nor the last hypocrite on this planet.
Ex-cricketers are so often so full of it.
Dreading the day Steve Waugh joines commentary teams! Will be precious to hear him condemn captains for not controlling onfield behaviour!

i doubt steve waugh will be a commentator when he retires, C9 have already said they wont want him.

 

[royGilchrist]

the javed incident was unbelieveable. Its not the force with which the kick was delivered, but the disrespect.

Its much worse than showing the finger, and much much worse than sledging. In my opinion a year's ban would have been appropriate. A mock kick or a mock slap or anything like that is completely inexcusable and deserves a strong punishment.

And its unbelievably stupid to say that Javed deserved it! It doesnt really matter what type of a person is on the receiving end.

 

[full_length]

I totally agree with you on that Roy.

 

[Kenny]

the javed incident was unbelieveable. Its not the force with which the kick was delivered, but the disrespect.

Its much worse than showing the finger, and much much worse than sledging. In my opinion a year's ban would have been appropriate. A mock kick or a mock slap or anything like that is completely inexcusable and deserves a strong punishment.

And its unbelievably stupid to say that Javed deserved it! It doesnt really matter what type of a person is on the receiving end.

Jeez, lighten up, Francis........a joke little tap like that is worse than a sledge that says "Your mother is a good root" for example?
Anyway, Javed was the epitome of disrespect on the field.

 

[royGilchrist]

you are missing the point completely buddy.

And me and FL in agreement, wow this doesnt happen too often. Nice to see you around btw FL.

 

[Top_Cat]

Ah, I'm not disagreeing with everything you are saying, TC, but you're harsh........very harsh!!

Bear in mind Im a huge Lillee fan. I wish I had 1/10 of his bowling ability. But sometimes, your idols just say things which you cant quite stomach, regardless of how much you might respect them.

Dreading the day Steve Waugh joines commentary teams! Will be precious to hear him condemn captains for not controlling onfield behaviour!

I must admit that I find Steve Waugh rude and arrogant but a hypocrite (particularly in the area of mental disintegration) I just couldnt call him. He certainly does things which are unplatable on the field but Ive never heard him say that others shouldnt do it either.

Its much worse than showing the finger, and much much worse than sledging. In my opinion a year's ban would have been appropriate. A mock kick or a mock slap or anything like that is completely inexcusable and deserves a strong punishment.

What did he get fined; $2800? That was a fine administered by the players association of the time so its hardly surprising I guess.

These days something like that would be a dangerous from a litigation perspective. Back then it was merely disrespectful.

And me and FL in agreement, wow this doesnt happen too often.

Yeah same here and by that of course I mean we agree on just about anything.

Maybe, Kenny, you and I have different ideas as to how strong the use of the word hypocrite is. I tend to think one could be called much worse things, particularly since we are all hypocritical to an extent. What do you think? If thats all there is, then maybe our positions arent so different.