subshakerz
Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
McGrath had more wicket competition than Ambrose. Gillespie, Warne, etc.
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Curtly Ambrose vs Dennis Lillee
- Thread starter PlayerComparisons
- Start date
Sliferxxxx
First Class Debutant
I thought you meant Lillee honestly. Lol nevermind. Fwiw, I think their competition for wickets was similar. McGrath had Warne, Gillespie etc, Ambrose had Walsh, Bishop etc.
akilana
State Captain
Not true. Better average.
akilana
State Captain
Thats hardly more competition than Ambrose had. The fact remains McGrath didn’t take a whole lot more wickets than Ambrose per innings as you claimed. He’s also closer to Ambrose than lillee.
subshakerz
Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
McGrath had slightly more wicket competition yet has still a slightly higher WPI. So in reality he isn't that close.
subshakerz
Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
It's not just Warne and Gillespie. He had Fleming, Lee, Reiffel, etc. The fact that he still is higher than Ambrose is significant.
Sliferxxxx
First Class Debutant
Idk how you can say he had more competition when Ambrose bowled with probably a similar amount of competition.
Sliferxxxx
First Class Debutant
Ambrose had Marshall, Bishop, Walsh, Patterson, the Benjamins etc. Same level of competition buddy.
subshakerz
Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
That was a relatively short period to have the others aside from Walsh.
Sliferxxxx
First Class Debutant
Ambrose, Walsh and Bishop played 37 tests together or 38% of Ambrose's career.
McGrath, Warne and Gillespie played 47 tests together or 38% of McGraths career.
McGrath, Warne and Gillespie played 47 tests together or 38% of McGraths career.
subshakerz
Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
Yeah thats not nearly the full picture. For example, Warne himself has a far higher WPM than Walsh. On top of that you have Brett Lee who takes over 4WPM.
It seems beyond any doubt that McGrath just had more competition for wickets.
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Sliferxxxx
First Class Debutant
Warne and McGrath played 83% of their matches together, Walsh and Ambrose: 97%. The fact that Lee has a higher wpi than Walsh is more a reflection of their teams than anything else. Australia were stronger and produced more results during Walshs time (especially late 90s). And let's not forget Ambrose had to contend early in his career with Marshall for something like 30 odd tests. McGrath never had a new ball bowler to compete with remotely in the same class.
subshakerz
Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
Dude I think you are dodging an obvious point. McGrath just had more competition than Ambrose.
Between Gillespie, Warne, Lee and others, McGrath just had more competition for those wickets. Let's say even that Walsh had more new ball share, pretty much the rest of the Aussie attack would mop up a middle lower order before McGrath comes back. Saying Aussies attack was stronger is basically agreeing with me.
Sliferxxxx
First Class Debutant
No he didnt, both had similar levels of competition. I already demonstrated that both played roughly similar number of tests with at least two other class bowlers. And it's not just Australia had strong bowling, they had a strong team stronger overall team which produced more results and therefore more opportunities at wickets.
As usual because of you agenda you get set in your ways and can't admit Ambrose had just as much competition for wickets as McGrath and definitely more than Lillee. The latter is not up for debate. Therefore bringing up Ambrose's wpi vs Lillee as you would say, lacks context. Anyway I'm sleepy I'll be back tomorrow again to win yet another one of our debates. Peace
subshakerz
Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
I don't think you actually believe Ambrose and McGrath had equal competition. It's darn obvious McGrath had several regular bowlers who were high wickettakers for a majority of his career.As usual because of you agenda you get set in your ways and can't admit Ambrose had just as much competition for wickets as McGrath and definitely more than Lillee. The latter is not up for debate. Therefore bringing up Ambrose's wpi vs Lillee as you would say, lacks context. Anyway I'm sleepy I'll be back tomorrow again to win yet another one of our debates. Peace
And the problem with Ambrose's WPI vs Lillee is that Ambrose WPI only takes a hit post-94 when his bowling competition of Marshall and Bishop pretty much were out of the scene. So that's not the reason his WPI went lower. And it's not like Lillee had no quality bowling competition too, he wasn't like Hadlee.
Goodnight.
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Sliferxxxx
First Class Debutant
Ambrose took a hit afaic because he was greatly diminished post surgery, still he finished with a top 5 career. You might not like it but see above to see what our peers think.
subshakerz
Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
Not top 5 but great we can all agree he was diminished
% of team wickets plus WPI/WPM wouldn't answer the question of who had more competition. Stronger Aus batting means more opportunities to take 20 wickets. A better bowler could have more competition and still end up with fewer wickets if they have nothing totals to bowl at. Unless Ambose had more of a habit of getting injured and being unable to bowl in thw 2nd innings, this would explain why Mcgrath has a notably higher WPM but not WPI.
Anyway, it's not just the batting:
WI bowling for matches involving Ambrose:
Average 27.4 SR 75.5
Aus bowling for matches involving Mcgrath:
Average 25.8 SR 66.8
subshakerz
Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
This sort of shows that McGrath had more competition.