Curtly Ambrose vs Dale Steyn

[Coronis]

4 of Steyn's 10 away-5W-hauls came in Zimbabwe, West Indies and Sri Lanka (relatively minnows). And in one of the Sri Lanka innings where Steyn took 5 wickets, he went for 6+ runs per over (at one point Steyn's figures were 8 overs 0 maidens 64 runs and 1 wicket - and this was a Test match). Sri Lankan batsmen were just going for their shots in that innings, even Ntini went for some runs (not as bad as Steyn though). It was their recklessness more than Steyn's skills, at least in that innings that got Steyn a 5W haul.

All of Ambrose's away-5W-hauls came in Australia, England, Pakistan and South Africa.
Most of them, top Test sides of the time.
Ambrose played just 1 Test match in Sri Lanka, and 0 Tests in Zimbabwe and Bangladesh.
West Indies side of 80s and 90s rarely played against minnows of that era.

Batting lineups of “relatively minnows” - Jayasuriya, Sangakkara, Jayawardene, Dilshan

Sangakkara, Jayawardene, Matthews, Chandimal

 

[OverratedSanity]

Batting lineups of “relatively minnows” - Jayasuriya, Sangakkara, Jayawardene, Dilshan

Sangakkara, Jayawardene, Matthews, Chandimal

Haha yeah that second 5fer in SL Steyn got in the 2014 Galle test is one of the ATG efforts in Asia against a great lineup.

 

[_00_deathscar]

Batting lineups of “relatively minnows” - Jayasuriya, Sangakkara, Jayawardene, Dilshan

Sangakkara, Jayawardene, Matthews, Chandimal

Problem with these dumb****s with checklists

 

[Johan]

Problem with these dumb****s with checklists

Yeah like with Trueman

 

[subshakerz]

Haha yeah that second 5fer in SL Steyn got in the 2014 Galle test is one of the ATG efforts in Asia against a great lineup.

Also won a series in Pakistan with a fifer in 2007. Steyn is close to top in SC.

 

[Johan]

Steyn in Asia and Ambrose outside Asia, pretty clearly.

 

[subshakerz]

Steyn in Asia and Ambrose outside Asia, pretty clearly.

Yeah except Steyn will win me games everywhere. Ambrose not so much.

 

[Johan]

Yeah except Steyn will win me games everywhere. Ambrose not so much.

sadly Ambrose hasn't played games in Asia, he can't change the schedule.

 

[subshakerz]

sadly Ambrose hasn't played games in Asia, he can't change the schedule.

Sure so we have to speculate how he would do. We don't with Steyn though. Even in England when he was tonked around he had matchwinning spells.

I think in SL Ambrose may have the odd good game as it seams occasionally, India a bit rougher. If it's post peak he would struggle.

 

[Johan]

Sure so we have to speculate how he would do. We don't with Steyn though. Even in England when he was tonked around he had matchwinning spells.

I think in SL Ambrose may have the odd good game as it seams occasionally, India a bit rougher. If it's post peak he would struggle.

yeah, but Ambrose is also verifiably better outside of Asia, him not having an Asian record is a bummer and that makes this even, not one sided.

 

[subshakerz]

yeah, but Ambrose is also verifiably better outside of Asia, him not having an Asian record is a bummer and that makes this even, not one sided.

Never said it's one sided. But you would prefer a proven matchwinner in all conditions to one concentrated in pace friendly conditions.

 

[Johan]

Never said it's one sided. But you would prefer a proven matchwinner in all conditions to one concentrated in pace friendly conditions.

I don't really know how to handle their Asia records (or lackof, in case of Curtly) tbh, I just give Steyn extra points which equalises the gap for outside Australia and that's about it.

 

[subshakerz]

I don't really know how to handle their Asia records (or lackof, in case of Curtly) tbh, I just give Steyn extra points which equalises the gap for outside Australia and that's about it.

Treat it the same way you would deal with Lillees lack of sample outside a few countries.

Steyn has won games in Pak, SL, India. Those wins in Pak and SL led to series victories.

I might be one of the few who think Ambrose given more opportunities would struggle in the SC.

 

[Johan]

Treat it the same way you would deal with Lillees lack of sample outside a few countries.

Steyn has won games in Pak, SL, India. Those wins in Pak and SL led to series victories.

I might be one of the few who think Ambrose given more opportunities would struggle in the SC.

my caveats with Lillee is not really something that I'm sure is appliciable to Ambrose though

 

[subshakerz]

my caveats with Lillee is not really something that I'm sure is appliciable to Ambrose though

What is your issue with Lillee?

 

[Johan]

What is your issue with Lillee?

pretty much all his home wickets were productive for his style of bowling, fast/bouncy with added swing movement in Brisbane. England was also very productive for his bowling style and pace bowling in general in the 1970s, he doesn't have much matches outside his comfort zone even at home or in England. Ambrose's home wickets bar Sabina Park and maybe Barbados are straight up not suited for him, atleast Ambrose has something outside his comfort zone, Lillee doesn't have it and what he does have is quite dissapointing.

 

[subshakerz]

pretty much all his home wickets were productive for his style of bowling, fast/bouncy with added swing movement in Brisbane. England was also very productive for his bowling style and pace bowling in general in the 1970s, he doesn't have much matches outside his comfort zone even at home or in England. Ambrose's home wickets bar Sabina Park and maybe Barbados are straight up not suited for him, atleast Ambrose has something outside his comfort zone, Lillee doesn't have it and what he does have is quite dissapointing.

That's a strange critique given how you seem to downplay Ambrose in SC. I'm sure there was a pitch or two in Aus not ideal for Lillee too.

 

[Johan]

That's a strange critique given how you seem to downplay Ambrose in SC. I'm sure there was a pitch or two in Aus not ideal for Lillee too.

I don't, I just say he's unproven there. Not sure if there's a pitch as unideal for Lillee as Bourda, Port of Spain or Antigua for Ambrose